Brew Talks Minneapolis 2022 CBC: Panel 2: Accelerator Programs Working to Level the Playing Field for Underserved Breweries

Justin Fonte [00:19] I'm Justin Fonte, Brewbound managing editor, uh, joined by my colleague, editor Justin Kendall. Hello, hello, hello, and, uh, we've got a great panel for you guys. Uh, before we kick off our second panel of the day, I do just want to thank all of our sponsors. We couldn't do this without them, uh, Vicinity Brew, Scott Laboratories, Omega Engineering, and Compass, Brew One, Ozaka, Spectrum, and Eclipse brought to you by the Barth Haas Group, and the Ray's Beer Division. So. Let's kick things off. This is a really exciting conversation that I have a strong personal connection to that I'm sure we'll talk about. But for startup breweries, knowing who to ask questions of and even the questions to ask isn't always, always clear. Often you don't even know what you don't know. So the pandemic combined with supply chain and inflationary headwinds have created added barriers to the industry, which were already even higher for women and entrepreneurs of color. Opportunities within the brewing industry aren't always equal for these folks whose access to credit and capital can be challenging. However, the good news is that there are programs aimed at helping upstarts navigate the business, and we are going to talk all about it. So joining us today are Mike Persi, Target's senior director divisional merchandizing manager for adult beverages. Mike, you have quite the title. They sure do. Target operates Takeoff, which is an accelerator program aimed at more more mature food and beverage companies, as well as forward founders, which is open to earlier stage companies. So we're going to talk all about that. Mike, thank you so much for being here. Uh, we also have, uh, my friend and former colleague Jennifer Glanville, Boston Beer Company's director of partnerships, who oversees the Brewing the American Dream Initiative. It's a program that's now in its 14th year that is aimed at helping entrepreneurs in food and beverage navigate access to capital and also a lot of mentoring opportunities. And we also have with us for the first time Tim and Dolly Parker, the founders of Chula Vista Brewery, and they are prior winners of a Brewing the American Dream craft brewer Experienceship who Uh, navigated all the ropes and are now in the expansion phase. So they're here to tell us all about their experiences. Hi Tim and Dolly, how are you guys?

Speaker 2 [02:19] I'm good. I'm happy to be

Speaker 3 [02:21] here. So

Justin Fonte [02:22] glad you're here. Um, and for everybody both in the room and watching at home, if you have questions for these guys, we will do our best to get you some answers. Feel free to shoot text messages to 617-336-8560. That is 617-336-8560. So, as we just discussed, uh, a little bit, accelerated programs offer access to mentors with a variety of experience, and a lot of times entrepreneurs don't know who to turn to for answers or even the right questions to ask. So Mike and Jennifer, tell us about how your respective programs build out the mentorship component of the program.

Speaker 4 [03:02] Sure, um, thank you. So, um, when Jim Cook started Samuel Adams, uh, almost 40 years ago, there were two things he didn't have access to capital and coaching. So 14 years ago we launched Bringing the American Dream with obviously the capital is incredibly important. You can't start your business without capital. More valuable is the mentoring, and that was a huge part of our program. So we started the program with that as a core pillar, and we have a variety of different ways we can provide that through speed coaching events, through pitch pitch room events, and one on one mentoring, and I think you know you made the point you don't know what you don't know. I remember Jim Cook telling a story that he didn't know how to do payroll. and he said, Well, what do you do? Who does that? And they were like, Well, you can go through HR. He's like, I don't have HR, right? So it's there's so many things where you don't know. And if you get the right mentor or mentorship program that can really help you. And it also gives people to be along with your journey and to really help with that. So it's really important and that's really the core one of the core pillars of our program.

Justin Fonte [04:04] Like, how does it work at target.

Speaker 5 [04:06] Oh, that's great. Similar, we're very excited about the Target Accelerators program, and TargetAccelerators.com has a bunch of resources. I'll talk about the program more specifically, but a bunch of great resources out there for a brewery or a company that's kind of in the earlier phases of figuring some of those things out because I think a lot of times finding those resources like HR and things of that nature can be a little bit daunting. Um, so you alluded to, we have two different, uh, programs within target accelerators. I'm, I'll, I'll talk about the programs because they're very similar. Really the big difference is what stage the company's in. So target takeoff is for a more mature company kind of ready to scale and do bigger things from where they're at. Um, and then the, uh, the forward program is earlier stage, so trying to figure out, uh, it's similar to how you talked about the mentor program. That's a big part of the program. So 8 week really immersive program with tons of resources really to look at the business in all facets, so everything from marketing to brand positioning to pricing to supply chain. So really helping the brands and helping the startup companies think through all the facets of the business and what needs to be true to take some of those next steps.

Speaker 6 [05:15] Jennifer, uh, just mentioned that brewing the American Dream is in its 14th year. How has the program evolved in the entrepreneurs that it's looking for?

Speaker 4 [05:26] Yeah, when we launched in 2008, it was after the financial crisis, so we had a lot of folks who had either lost their jobs or wanted to follow their passion, so we had a lot of startup type of business. So that's great and we still have that. But one thing that we've seen over the years and we've evolved and especially over the last two years was how do we identify different barriers. So we know that for example female food and beverage entrepreneurs and brewers. Or want to want to be brewery owners, they have a different barrier than somebody else, right? So we've been able to identify some of those barriers and really customize a lot of that programming so we can really help them. We have 63% of the entrepreneurs in our program are female and 76% are BIPOC, so we know that, you know, part of the loan issue was around traditional banks not wanting to lend to breweries. We know that and we know that they can. Part of that coaching is to help with that. How do we make sure that people are getting the right amount of capital too? So, um, really helping to evolve that and then also just keeping up with different trends. Um, you know, I think 14 years ago was a lot different than today. Um, today, uh, there's a lot of examples of successful taprooms and breweries that have opened, um, you know, not everybody is going to be able to go nationwide. At all, or let alone, you know, the dreams of having it the first year. So how can we help coach and mentor that so that they can start their business and grow it in time? And then we also launched our experienceship program, so we're in our 9th year of that, um, and that's specific for brewers. Um, we'll be launching in June, so keep, keep your eyes out, and that's how we met Tim and Dolly, um, as part of our, um, experience. program where you're provided once you're in the family, you're in the family, so it's a lifetime of coaching and mentoring on any topics. And what's really interesting is we'll get questions now from brewers who have been on our program that are sort of alumni where, you know, instead of like, hey, I want to talk to someone about staffing, they're like, hey, do you have an electrical engineer I can talk to, right? So we know that the business needs are evolving too as that, so we're able to provide that.

Justin Fonte [07:20] So Tim and Dali, what were some of the roadblocks and challenges that you guys faced in the early days of Chula Vista?

Speaker 2 [07:26] Um, yeah, it's getting funded. Um, so for us it worked out because we signed up for the Brewing American Dream, uh, in San Diego. They, they call it, uh, ACO, but now they call it necessity. Uh, so then we got a bunch of coaching. Uh, we did get the grant. The grant helped us get actually get a bigger loan, uh, but with the coaching you get to meet, all right, how do you figure out how to get the funding? So a lot of times the bigger banks don't want to fund people like me and Dolly who are both black and brown. So for us we found out through the coaching that we probably need to go to our local neighborhood banks uh who typically cater to your community in the first place. So we went to a local neighborhood bank and without question as soon as we walked through the door, they were like, oh, we've been needing this forever and they were basically trying to figure out more ways to give us more money, so. You know, but it's like you say, you don't know what you don't know. So it's not until you talk to the right people who point you in the right direction where you find out that you do have access. You just got to figure out how to get to it.

Speaker 6 [08:31] Mike, I want to focus in a little bit on both of your programs. Um, have you had a lot of uh Bev Al companies apply to be in those programs? And if not, how can we get more in them?

Speaker 5 [08:44] Uh yeah, we have not had a Bev Elk company go through it yet. We've had, we have a similar program on the technology side inside of Target, a tech upstart kind of accelerator program, and I have a couple of partners that we're still doing business with today that have come through that, which is super exciting, but Bev Elk is a priority category for this season's applications. I've already seen some come through for that, so I hope to see more and more from that.

Speaker 6 [09:08] What are some things that you're really looking for in those companies?

Speaker 5 [09:13] Yeah, so for us in Bev Elk for Target's business, you know, our strategy, we really want to be curated and differentiated and on trend. Similar to what I heard Jennifer talk about, um, our commitments, Target's commitments to elevating female and black owned businesses is a very strong commitment from the company. So whether it's through accelerator programs like that that meet some of those other criteria or just working out and reaching, uh, reaching out directly with the team and working with us to do some of that coaching, some of that training, some of that guiding of is the product ready, is it ready? For retail yet, is it ready for retail on what scale and really working with teams to set up for success, I think one of the things where it doesn't work well is if either partner takes a step in the time we're not ready for whatever reason. So it's really doing all that diligence and working through the plan to make sure supply chain, to make sure all the different parts of running successful business need to be there.

Justin Fonte [10:11] So Tim and Dolly, you guys have been there, you've lived this. We talked a little bit about your, your journey to getting capital, but, um, what have your meetings with, um, mentors through the program been like? What have you taken away from those meetings and those conversations with people through the Brewing the American Dream program?

Speaker 3 [10:28] Um, yeah, a lot of what we've taken away is, you know, we, a lot of the times we'll walk into places and really we're looking for one particular thing and then from there we would sign on to a newsletter and that newsletter would send us emails about who's gonna be into town, you know, who's gonna be into town and who's hosting what. You know for particular dates and from that that led to another resource and another door opening for us and so for us we're big into, you know, as many mentors have as we've had along the way also being able to answer questions of veterans that walking through our our door that are. Interested in opening up a business, you know, and being able to guide them and say hey we have worked with Access City if you haven't heard of them, please, you know, go talk to this person and you know it's just an array of resources that as Jennifer touched on earlier, it's not just for one year it's a whole lifetime of you know people that you get to meet that are able to provide help and resources and guide us in the right direction.

Speaker 6 [11:24] Tim and Dolly, what suggestions do you have for others who might want to replicate these programs, how they can make them better, and also for the brewers out there who want to apply for them so they can get the most out of them when they do apply and possibly get through them.

Speaker 2 [11:41] Uh, I mean, well, to make it better, I mean, you just got to get the word out. I mean, part of the thing is that, you know, let's, let's say if you're trying to get biopac, you're trying to get women and people of color, you have to go into the communities and talk and talk to them directly. So, you know, I'm, I'm gonna be honest, I don't spend a lot of time on Instagram and Facebook, so, you know, uh, but, you know, ASEAN, which is like I said, uh, they call it necessity now in San Diego, but a lot of places are still called Aceon. Uh, they go to those communities directly, so you have to work with those people that go to the people you're actually trying to get to and so they can hear what you're doing and what you're offering. Uh, so if you're a big company, you know, that's pretty much what you have to do because a lot of us don't, you know, a lot of those communities just don't watch the same thing as other communities is paying attention to, so. And you had a second part to that question. What was it?

Speaker 6 [12:37] Uh, how brewers who are in the programs can get the most out of them.

Speaker 2 [12:42] Uh, you can get a lot out of it. Like I, I think we said it already, it's a lifetime partnership. I mean, you could go from, uh, you know, I was having problems where when we first started Canon, we just couldn't get the canon right. And then we contacted Sam Adams and they told us what to do. Uh, they gave us, uh, they put us in contact with, whoever runs the cannon operation and was like, try this, try this, try this, we try this. I haven't had no problems with my, you know, my DL since, uh. Uh, I mean, it's just simple things like that, that, you know, they can help you out with and the coaching and you can always reach out to someone who already been there, done that, and get and get you, get the right answer that you're looking for. So that's very important.

Justin Fonte [13:27] So Jennifer, you mentioned how this is, it's not just for a year, it's for a lifetime. So how do you facilitate that continued support for breweries once they've graduated from their experience ship here?

Speaker 4 [13:37] Yeah, you never really graduate. You're always in the family, but what we, what we try to do is we lean in and Tim and Dolly are so generous with their time. To really utilize them as alumni, and I, you know, I think when they're talking it's one of the things. Not only do we have to reach folks who need, who can use these resources, we have to figure out that, but also, you know, anybody in here who is running a brewery knows they wear many hats. Any food and beverage person is wearing many hats. So sometimes the effort to think about like, oh, what could I ask, I just don't have time. So it's us really leveraging folks like Tim and Dolly to say like, hey, could you talk to this other brewer? They want to talk about this. They're in your area. And then as they talk about the program they realize how many free resources and I think that's the one thing is like you know this is a free program. You don't have to have had a loan. You can, you can be involved, and we just want to continue to bring those resources and utilize our alumni for that. We also want to provide the opportunity we get interest in the program or opportunities, you know, we want to bring them with us to talk about it because it's word of mouth is always going to be better and that sort of third party validation is always better when people have been through the program and, you know, as I mentioned, you, you really get what you put into it, right, with anything, and it's the same with this.

Speaker 6 [14:47] So I want to plug the text line one more time. 617-336-8560. That's 617-336-8560. We have a question for you, Mike. For target takeoff, how does this program work with national or regional purchasing decision makers?

Speaker 5 [15:06] Yes, that, that'll be a big part of it, you know, I think every retailer that's in Bev Elk operates a little differently, um, which those that are in the business know, um, so, uh. Everyone, I think, is trying to figure out this journey where the beer industry in particular has gotten so hyperlocal, right? It's not even a Minnesota IPA anymore. It's within the Twin Cities, uh, my home market here. There's different IPAs for every single city that are going to overindex. And so I think working with the combination of the stores and the headquarters buying teams is just really understanding. Um, what that looks like by market, but I think we're all trying to figure out how to be, especially a retailer of target scale, how to be locally relevant in every store that we're at. If it looks like I built the assortment from here in Minneapolis, it's not good. So really I think partnering with stores, partnering with the brewers to understand where their guests are, where do they overindex, where are the places. That are going to really be easy home runs, likely for the assortment and for the brands and where are some other places that we need to test our way into and how do we learn along the way.

Justin Fonte [16:11] Awesome. Uh, the last two years in the beer industry, I'm so sorry for the language, have been an entire unmitigated shit show. So Jennifer, how have you noticed concerns in the, of the entrepreneurs in the program? How have they changed in the past two years? You getting different questions? Are you, are there different needs out there? What's different?

Speaker 4 [16:30] Yeah, I think, I mean, a lot of the same things everyone's seeing or experiencing is around staffing. How do we, how do we not only get staffing, but how do we keep them, you know, I think. Speaking for myself, running a brewery for 21 years, you know, we, it was easy to get staffing 10 years ago, right? And now it's very hard to get staffing, so that's a big concern for our, our food and be entrepreneurs and breweries. Um, I think, you know, capital, how do we get enough capital? How do we make sure we're not getting Too much capital, you know, that's one great part about the program is making sure that you're being mentored in terms of your, your finances, scaling, what size, you know, do I, you know, you don't want to not buy the right amount of equipment, but you don't want to go too big, right, if you don't need to. So those are some of the big ones and really the biggest one that's happened to me over the past 24 months has been around pitching. I can barely get in to see my buyer. I have my mask on, like they can't see how excited I am. I have less than 2 minutes to give my pitch, right? So we've done a lot of pitching, um, workshops. We've done our pitching competitions virtually and, um, in person. So I think that was really just honing in on that. And how do I sell my product when, you know, to Mike's point, there's, you could get 27 Minnesota IPAs right around here. How do I make sure mine's the one that stands out? So, um, honing in that pitch and making sure they can really sell their story is really incredibly important.

Justin Fonte [17:48] Mike, how have you noticed the last two years change in terms of what you're hearing from, from brands?

Speaker 5 [17:52] Oh man, I do, I've not enjoyed the last two years. Um, it's really changed everything we do. You think about, you would go to a trade show or a conference before and how many people you'd meet, um, and to your point, like what's going on in the market, right? So, like, for our buying team that's been kind of locked in Minneapolis for the last couple of years, it's been really hard to find new ways to connect with brands. And all of that, I think, yeah, pitching has gotten different, unique. How many on Zoom, how many coordinating someone sending me a sample and telling me if I have to refrigerate it or not before I open it later for a Zoom call. So I think it's changed quite a bit. I do think in this new kind of more digitally enabled world where we're on Zoom and On calls and connected a lot more. It is that short conversation. So I think a couple pieces of advice, whether talking to Target or any other retailer, I think it's always good to do your homework, understand the strategy of the company, is it a fit or not? Don't, don't go, you know, trying to knock down doors where it probably isn't a fit, not a good use of your time. I think sharing the story, both the story behind the people behind the brands, and then where you've had success, so whether it's stats from your taproom where you have distribution where everything's going on, like what's the interesting part for a retailer to kind of have a reason to believe, and then from there. Alluded to earlier, it gets into a lot of things that we try to build into the accelerator program and really any good relationship my team is building with a supplier is talking through all the logistics what supply chain look like, what does marketing look like, what are all those facets of setting the brand up for success. I think at the end of the day. I don't want to launch and I don't think anyone else wants to launch and get into a retailer and then it'd be pulled out, you know, 4 or 6 years later. We want to set it up for long term success. So I think it's really that collaboration and partnership to get all those things in the right place and then honestly a lot of honest dialogue if certain facets of it aren't ready. So we don't have a great marketing plan like let's hold or let's test in a smaller set of stores and figure out how to scale it at the right time.

Speaker 6 [19:52] Tim and Dolly, you've graduated from the, the brewing the American Dream program to mentor status. What are you hearing now from Upstart breweries?

Speaker 3 [20:04] Yeah, one of the biggest questions we get asked is funding, you know, that I feel like that hasn't changed in terms of, you know, how do I find more resources, where do I start? Where do I go? And so, you know, finding capital is probably one of the biggest things that we hear repeatedly.

Justin Fonte [20:23] That's a great one. And we just got a really great question come in the text line. With rising prices to produce beer, what ways have you seen upstart breweries generate other revenue streams from outside of beer sales? And really quick, if you do have a question and you want to sneak it in, 617-336-8560. I'm sure there's a lot of creativity out there. What have you guys all seen?

Speaker 2 [20:45] Uh, well, for us, you know, we was just tap room only. Uh, we didn't do stores, we didn't, didn't even try to do anything outside the tap room. Uh, so once COVID hit, we quickly transitioned. We went and bought a cannon machine. Uh, we started canning, went straight to stores, um. And that actually helped grow the business. So you see a lot of people, uh, transitioning, you know, more away from the taproom back into trying to get, figure out how to get their cans into the stores. Uh, if you're a small taproom, I always say try to control your backyard first before you try to. You know, for me, you know, I'm Chula Vista Brewery, so obviously my backyard is Chula Vista Brewery. So I just focus on Chula Vista Brewery and let it grow from there, and it, which, which it, it did. Um, you also got people, you know, for a brewery, you know, your, your goal is not to sell merch, but it's not bad to try to sell merch. Um, and then like for us because we're just a small brewery, you know, we started upgrading our website and, and, and you started, you know, messing with the POS and getting so you could take cash faster and you could start shipping. So for even for the smaller breweries you just started doing a lot more that you really only thought people like Sam Adams was doing, you know. I remember ordering Sam Adams in my house which I'm still trying to get her to send me some Utopia, but I haven't seen it yet. Uh,

Justin Fonte [22:11] I feel like we could make

Speaker 2 [22:12] that happen, she reminds me that she brewed it, but I still ain't seen it.

Justin Fonte [22:20] I got 5 bottles,

Speaker 2 [22:22] you know, but you just get creative. So, uh, a lot of, a lot of smaller breweries have transitioned to things that you really only thought bigger breweries was doing and, and it's been very successful for us and a lot of other breweries.

Justin Fonte [22:34] I mean, Jennifer, I know you and I used to work together at Sam Adams, as I'm sure you hear me say on the Brewman podcast all of the time, but you guys have done a great job at offering really specialized experiences that have helped drive some revenue. Can you, can you share some of that wisdom, because I think that's really helpful. Yeah,

Speaker 4 [22:49] and it really came from a personal just desire to have people see this beautiful barrel room I built down the Beer Keller, and I was like, Oh, how can we get a tour down there? So we started charging. We made a special cheese and beer pairing tour, um. And we looked around at what other tours were charging just in general, not just breweries, and that's been a huge revenue generator, not over the last two years. We're just, we're just reopening that again, so I definitely suggest people, most people, I hate to generalize, but most people have been on a brewery tour if they, if they have been interested in one, right? So your sort of regular brewery tour, it gives you an opportunity to elevate that to charge people to come in. I would also say, you know, leverage partners for impact. You don't have to be the only one doing it if you're in your taproom, you know, people, we automatically go to charitable initiatives which are incredible, huge part of my job. I love that. But there's also opportunities to partner with arts and music and things like that, so you don't have to be the one doing it all, but you could make some revenue stream off that too. So I think being very creative around that is really important right now.

Speaker 6 [23:52] Mike, we talk a lot about pitching you, but what are some mistakes you consistently see breweries slash bel companies making that they can avoid?

Speaker 5 [24:03] Yeah, I think the biggest thing just goes back to transparency between a retailer and a brewery. I think like anyone, if you're excited to get your product out there, you want to get it out there as fast as you can in as many places as you can, and Um, I think some of the biggest disappointments we've had would be a time where it's a brand that's a fit for Target. We're really excited about it and then we find something like we only have enough beer supply for the next 90 days and we don't have a replenishment strategy thereafter. So that's going to lead to some guest disappointment down the line. So I think it's the transparency around where things are at. And then honestly, if a retailer like Target asks for more than you can do, being honest and say like we can't do 300 stores, we actually don't have a good distributor lined up in these states and really scaling the launch and the kind of strategy width, so I think the failures all come from one of those factors kind of missing along the way would be my would be my part one of the answer and then part two, I think. The last question we kind of talked about diversifying business models. Uh, so on and off-premise, what's happening in your taproom, um, cocktails to go have become a thing in the last couple of years. Um, it's just really like what is your total brand marketing plan and what do you, what are you bringing for it? What does Target need to do? What does that collaboration look like? Because again, we don't just want to get the product on the shelf, we want to sell it, get repeat, create a lot of excitement around the brand.

Justin Fonte [25:27] Awesome. Uh, Tim and Dolly, Chula Vista is now on to the next phase of expansion. You guys have done so well over the past few years, and you're planning on brewing through Alesmith, your neighbor, uh, in San Diego. What does the next stage of growth look like for you, and how has it all been going?

Speaker 2 [25:42] My wife keeps tossing it to me. Um, I, I think Mike brought up a good point is, uh, being truthful about what scale you're at and what you can do. So for us, what we did was, you know, like when we did the bad mo, we like, we're only gonna do these two stores. Uh, pretty much if you wasn't in Chula Visa, we weren't trying to deal with you. Um, and the stores was OK with that. And then, um. Same thing with that weekend to uh Hyatt. Hyatt wanted us to do like all the California and I'm like, no, we're gonna scale it back down to San Diego. Uh, they, they got us all the way up to Carlsbad, but I'm still like uh. I just don't want to do the drive, um. That's fair, you know, but you have to be honest, you know, what can you do? So you know, for us as we're trying to grow, we continue to grow, you know, we realize that we don't make that much beer to give to everybody what they're asking for. So now we're going to team up with another brewery who has a little bit more space than us to brew more beer. Um, and just focus that side of the house just on, you know, shipping out to the different places. Uh, what that provides for us, I don't have to spend millions of dollars to build a new brew house, uh, and you know, I can still focus on, you know, my side of the house, and that can be, and I can still grow, um. Because what you don't want to be stuck as for me and Dolly, we, we're independent, we don't have a bunch of investors, we are our only two investors, so we don't have all these secret investors all over the place with us, so we don't want to try to drive ourselves in debt just to grow the business and say we got this big brewery, you know, uh, you know that's how some breweries get in trouble, you know, too big, too fast. So we want to naturally grow, let it naturally happen, and let it be more organic instead of trying to force my beer down, you know. You know, if that community ain't ready for my beer, they're not ready for my beer. Uh, which I think Mike kind of touched on a little bit. The craft beer to me, for me personally, I think it's more going to more neighborhoods, uh, type, type brewery style. So a lot of neighborhoods now just want their beer, and they, when they go to the store, they just look for their neighborhood beers. And in San Diego, you could probably see it a lot. You see a lot of breweries come from out of town and you'd be like, Oh man, that's a great brewery, and then they fail. Well, because San Diego will only allow San Diego beer. You know, I think, you know, we got about 4 or 5 breweries I can name that all failed, but they're great brewers, great breweries, but You know, this United Neighborhood Brewery. So, you know, I think a lot of breweries are starting to figure that even the San Diego breweries because you got big breweries in San Diego that branched out and you start hearing about, oh man, they just failed. Well how did they fail? Well, they left San Diego and they started doing all this other craziness. So you know, focus on yourself first, focus on your backyard. Don't try to go take over somebody else's neighborhood because it's somebody already there, and I think that's the great thing about craft beer is that it's really community based, you know, so, and if you stay, stay true to that and let it naturally grow, eventually you can get as big as Sam Adams maybe, but you know, for the rest of us, we just got to play our part. So that's what we've done and that's what we're going to continue to go do. Hopefully one day I'm in the Target. I only got one, so I only want to get in that one. I think we know a guy. Right? I

Speaker 5 [29:05] was waiting the whole panel for

Speaker 2 [29:06] that. Exactly. So it's easiest setup. So I like I like to toss my darts, you know, you know,

Speaker 6 [29:14] I mean, you waited like 25 minutes. I did. I mean,

Speaker 2 [29:17] I waited for the right time, right? So shoot your shot. Yeah, so that for me, that's how we grow. And that's how we've been successful. So,

Speaker 6 [29:28] Mike, speaking of shooting shots, like, we know you're hearing pitches on everything at this point. What do you want to be pitched on at this point? What do you not want to be pitched on?

Speaker 5 [29:39] Oh, that's a great question. Uh, wow. Um, again, like what we're trying to do a lot more in the last couple of years. I think we've always tried to articulate our unique strategy and what we want to do with our assortment. Um, I've really tried to scale that up and be even more overt, uh, to answer that question as a leading indicator of like, hey, if you're hearing this and this sounds like you, like you should be calling us. Um, and we're looking for you too, by the way. Um, I was talking to a couple of people before the first session. And this whole world of like how do you connect with people and we're talking about, you know, do you try to use the service do you just randomly ping people on LinkedIn, how do you get in so for us, you know, curated, differentiated. Um, really big commitment. We want to be hyperlocal in all the markets that we're at, um, and we really want to celebrate a lot of things that the industry is not doing with female owned brands, black owned brands, um, so those are some of the things that we're looking to overinvest and overindex. Uh, the other part of the question. On not want to see the same old ideas that haven't worked. So if we, if we had something in distribution a couple of years ago and we pulled it mutually because it wasn't working, why are we talking about it again unless there is a reinvent new plan, something of that nature.

Justin Fonte [30:56] Uh, before we wrap up, Jennifer, how can breweries find out more information about Brewing the American Dream?

Speaker 4 [31:02] I'm so glad you asked. Um, you can go to brewingheAmericanDream.com or there's a link from our Sam Adams website. Um, I will say if you're interested in unique capital, Brewing the American Dream, we have nonprofit lending partners. We've lent in the past 14 years $75 million so. Um, through our partners throughout the country. So please, if you're looking to expand, you can go in there for that. We also have a ton of free resources both online and of course we're back in person, so we'll be hosting some pitch rooms and speed coaching around, and I will say just a plug, there's a gentleman here in the back. I won't name him, but he came to one of my first coaching events in Denver, Colorado, and then subsequently told me he quit his job at the next JBF and I was like, oh shit, what did I do? And now he's an amazing brewer and he's been in the industry for a long time. So you know, I just, I just like it's kind of cheesy, but like we're all in this awesome industry and anything we can do to help people grow their business, follow their passion, that's what we're here to do. So thank you. Fantastic.

Justin Fonte [31:58] Well thank you all so much. This is really great. Everybody at home will be back in a couple minutes. Everybody in the room, let's go get a beer.