Brew Talks Denver 2022 - The Chain Game: National Accounts Tips & Tricks

Speaker 1 [00:15] Well, uh, let's get into it because, uh, we got a lot to cover. Um. Another thank you to our presenting sponsor, Dogfish Head, as well as the Reyes Beer Division, Crafted ERP Ahead of the Curve, and the e-premise group. Please give it up for those guys for sponsoring this and allowing us to do all this. All right, let's talk national accounts. Wholesalers surveyed by Tameron Consulting, and I'm a nerd because I read the survey. They consistently say that this is an area that craft brewers need improvement on. And so, you know, you, you all should check your report cards, I guess. Uh, so how do you get in? How do you keep buyers happy? How do you keep your wholesalers happy? How do you even get started? Uh, we're going to talk all about that. So we brought together 4 sales leaders to answer all these questions and more. Joining us today are Billy Clayton, Odell Brewing, senior National Account Manager. Thanks for being here, Billy.

Speaker 2 [01:13] You're welcome.

Speaker 1 [01:15] We've got Becca Toft, Athletic Brewing's key account manager for the Midwest. What's up, Becca? What's up? We've got Ryan Call, Dry Dock Brewing's director of sales. Thanks for being here, Ryan. Thanks for having me. And last but not least, we've got Elizabeth Eisenbart, Juneshine's director of National Accounts. Thanks for being here, Elizabeth. Thank you. So let's get going because each of you are at very different stages of the business. Uh, Becca Athletic is now a national brand. You're filling, you filled out your fifty-state distribution earlier this year. When you're in the process of basically completing that map, how do you, you know, focus your team?

Speaker 3 [01:56] Yeah, well, we're super excited to be in all 50 states now. Um, as far as the chain team goes, our focus is currently are expanding distribution within those chains that we already work with, but that we had coverage gaps. Um, it's working with new chains that we couldn't even service prior to filling out the footprint. We're working with our retailers to kind of expand what's available on the shelf for those that we've been working with and then A lot of it is still an education piece with who the non-out consumer is and has become, who, uh, or, you know, what's happening in the non-out segment, since it's still pretty moving pretty fast and then who we are as a brand. And not just that we make great in a beer, but that we're in our local communities, you know, doing events, sponsoring events, and using our impact funds like Two for the Trails and our Jedi program, which is justice, equity, diversity and inclusion, um, to stay local and, and support the community.

Speaker 1 [03:01] Billy, uh, Odell is the most mature brand here. Um, you're in 20 states, but you've really got a strong focus here in Colorado. When you've zeroed in on a single state while working with the 19 others, how does that affect your approach?

Speaker 2 [03:17] So, uh, we actually just had our first in-person, uh, annual business plan meeting, uh, ever. Uh, so it's kind of top of mind for us, you know, how do we get that message to our entire footprint while also kind of pivoting and, uh, focusing on Colorado at the same time. Um, so I'd say we're kind of everywhere outside of Colorado, we try to make it simple, make it streamlined, get everybody, get everyone behind those kind of pillars, um, kind of all across the board. And then in Colorado is where we get to be really focused at the retail level, at the store level, because our portfolio is kind of so deep here. Our brand priorities also change in Colorado because we are so mature that some brands that might not be carrying further outside of Colorado do incredibly well here, but as far as like approach, it is literally kind of store level. We build what's called we call an account universe. All the skews across the top, all the retail stores along the bottom, we look, OK, IPA 12 packs is in these 72 stores. We want to add these 15, and we get very focused at the store level with the specific brands. So it's definitely a lot more focused, a lot more very targeted in Colorado versus kind of everywhere else is more kind of broad but still having a focus that's simple.

Speaker 1 [04:28] Elizabeth, I, I feel like you need like a flow chart probably now to keep everything straight because you, Juneshine has evolved its portfolio from just hard kombucha to ready to drink canned cocktails, spirits-based ones, and you know, the game is very much different there. So, several craft brewers are following this path into RTD canned cocktails and, and those type of products with a different route to market. How has that changed your approach?

Speaker 4 [04:55] Yeah, are you offering to make the flow chart for me?

Speaker 1 [04:57] Pepe Sylvia style? Yes,

Speaker 4 [04:59] OK, OK, cool. Uh, yeah, it has, I would say, entirely changed our route to market from a marketing perspective, from a budget perspective, from a hiring perspective, we, I think there's two ways you could do it. You could stick with the current category, nurture it, maybe dip your toe into the other one. Or you can pivot and decide that you really want to get into the second one. I would say if you had to choose between the two, we've done the latter, right? I think to really give this thing a shot we've really decided to pivot as a company and so from a marketing perspective like I said, from a budgeting perspective we've hired from a chain team, um, on the chain team side I've hired specific people from spirit companies to come in and help me figure this thing out, uh. It's very, it's a very different world. There's different buyers, there's different taxes, there's different ways to deliver to the retailer, um, so we're really learning as we go, to be honest, and. You know, just our entire route to market like you said, has been, has been a true pivot. um, that said, we are dabbling in trying to keep our same distributor partners, so you know that that's new as well, trying to bring spirits through a beer wholesaler has been interesting to say the least.

Speaker 1 [06:17] I'm guessing a lot of education.

Speaker 4 [06:19] On both sides, I think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 [06:21] Ryan, Dry Dock sells beer in two states as such an at such an early development stage. What advice do you have for starting or even getting in the door or even getting a Zoom call?

Speaker 5 [06:35] That's the key, right? Uh, we are in only 2 states, only one of those is a chain state though, here in Colorado. Um, so we're still kind of in our infancy there. We have good business, but as we expand out into other chain states, really the key for us internally has been, um, having that conversation of where can we bring the most value to the retailer because their sets are smaller, you're not going to get everything in the store, it's not going to go the same way like Billy said. Um, lucky enough for Dry Dock, our lead beer is apricot blonde, which We feel belongs in that conversation in the fruit category here and any other state. Um, Dry Dock makes really good IPAs, but is it Odell IPA we're going to bring as much value as Odell IPA? Not saying ours isn't as good as theirs, uh, but we're just not as well known for it. So you really have to have those conversations internally, have your priorities planned out, and then here in Colorado, much like Billy said, maybe different than what we do in another state, um, and then also really targeting, especially here as we look to expand our portfolio, targeting the accounts where we have the most success, so. IPA might get pitched to an account within 20 miles of the brewery, but not outside of that, because that's where it sells, so.

Speaker 1 [07:36] So I, I, I skipped doing this at the start. You, you guys are more than welcome to send questions for these guys. We've got a text line. It's 617-336-8560, 617-336-8560. But you know, don't ask for like a buyer's phone number or anything like that. Uh, let's get into the state of play, and I, I, I sort of hinted at it, you know, I, I realize we're all tired of talking about the pandemic. But there's no question that it's changed, uh, the state of play here, you know, on, on how these meetings take place. Uh, you've gone from meeting in person to, to basically virtual all the time. Uh, how has this changed the dynamics and the relationships and your ability to get in, uh, and I'll start with Billy.

Speaker 2 [08:22] Yeah, this is, uh, as we all know, this is a very, uh, person to person, uh, industry, like, you know, drinking beer is very social. It's, you know, one of my favorite things about working for a brewery is the social aspect of it. Uh, and then just COVID nuking it and everything going to virtual, uh, I think is, is terrible, um, just because you don't get that kind of same face to face building relationships, uh, and honestly, you, you can't go over on a Zoom call. So if you got 10 minutes, 15 minutes, there is no stalling and keeping going like they will be like, all right, bye. Uh, so like it's definitely cut, cut the, you know, uh, I want to say that the relationship aspect and then Really the, the, the fun side of selling beer, um, you know, Zoom, I think, is here to stay. I think a lot of retailers do like that, you know, they can be in one place and then kind of roll through meetings all day, knock get behind, um, but I definitely hope, and there are a couple, you're starting to see it more, uh, more in-person meetings again, and I, I hope that that stays and comes back, um, but yeah, it's, it's Zoom's been pretty brutal in some situations.

Speaker 1 [09:27] Has that been your experience, Becca? Yeah,

Speaker 3 [09:29] I mean. I think there are some benefits to the virtual side of it. I mean, it definitely, like Billy said, you can't really underestimate the power of like a handshake and legitimate in-person eye contact and, you know, reading someone's body language and the natural way that a conversation goes when you're in person, um, but I think the benefit on the virtual side is that obviously our personal lives don't suffer as much. Um, you know, there's not as much money being spent, and, uh, I think that it also helps smaller brewers, you know, because if you're only doing in-person meetings, you're probably meeting with your top, you know, top dollar sales suppliers. And so it might open up a little more. You know, time availability for the, for those retailers to meet with the smaller ones, even if it's, you know, 8 minutes. Is it getting

Speaker 1 [10:21] you in the door, Ryan?

Speaker 5 [10:23] Sometimes, sometimes. Uh, I mean, we've had a little bit of that, right? Like, like I said, if you're not having to travel and you have a little more time, you can punch through them all in a day, you might get that extra Zoom meeting or one you didn't get before. Um, but unfortunately, you also may not get a meeting at all still, um, and that's where the spreadsheets and things they ask you to turn in become even more important because you have to find a way to relay what you would have done in that meeting through those spreadsheets. So you really have to understand your numbers, what you're trying to do, the education aspect of it, if that's included. Um, you know, if they give you 3 weeks to do it, don't wait till the last minute. Spend all 3 weeks working on that, um, and, you know, have some friends, send it out to someone for a second opinion if you need to. I mean, but that's where, uh, we've had success, but it's really been sending in those spreadsheets and the things they asked for and put as much work as possible into those.

Speaker 1 [11:09] Elizabeth, do you think we're going to see a return to normal, or do you think it's just gonna be a, a hybrid all the time now?

Speaker 4 [11:16] I think it's going to be a hybrid if anything because of retailers' personalities. There are just a lot of introverts out there that have seen this as a big thank you. I don't have to meet with people anymore. So I think from an efficiency perspective, you know, we met with a retailer the other day that We said we'd love to meet with you in person and come moving forward and you know she just said thanks but no thanks. I get a lot more done this way. And then there's other retailers that have admitted I, you know, I prefer to meet virtually. I can get more done and I'm not really a social person, so I think it will probably be a hybrid forever.

Speaker 2 [11:51] Agreed.

Speaker 1 [11:52] Yeah. So in the current environment, uh, you know, as things have changed, um, what do you see is the biggest difference between, you know, selling into a chain store chain C store versus grocery versus liquor at this point? And I'll start with Becca.

Speaker 3 [12:08] Yeah, I mean, I think there's 3 key differences between, you know, those C-store grocery liquor. It's space, I think speed of adopting trends, and, um, the customer, right? And CS stores just don't have as much room, you know, they just don't. Everything's in the cooler, it's cold, it's a smaller footprint. They don't have the ability to take as many risks on newer brands or Having a bunch of different IPAs or a bunch of different fruit beers, they need what's going to be in there to be efficient and pull and be reliable. And so I think that speaks to the speed. Grocery stores and liquor stores can. They have, they have the space to have multiples of styles and Um, see stores need to know the trend is something that's going to stick. And then the consumer, yeah, they're just totally, I think they're totally different. You go into a grocery store or a liquor store, you're probably going to explore a little bit. And as a sea store, you're going in to buy beer, you're probably going to drink it right after you leave. So, um, I mean, not right off. I mean, maybe not right after, but pretty soon.

Speaker 1 [13:19] Let's open out right after, uh, Billy, do you want to build on

Speaker 2 [13:21] that? Yeah, I mean, so we have a really interesting perspective. Odell, obviously being based in Colorado was, you know, 3-2 in, in grocery and convenience and mass merch until a couple of years ago. Um, so we had a really deep embedded relationship with a lot of the liquor store owners. Um, and in terms of just building that relationship, the speed to market, um, launching a new brand, getting commitments, getting stacks, getting displays, is more on a store to store. Person to person relationship and at the chain level, it's uh more planned out, you know, you start pitching your items for the spring reset which happens in March and April back in June, July, August. Um, so you, you're pitching these brands 9, 10 months out before they even get to the market, whereas a liquor store, you could walk in and say, hey, I got this new beer coming out next week, you know, pre-sell. 10 cases, get it in there. Chains just don't work at that same speed, so, you know, they make up for it by having a ton of locations and doing a lot of volume, um, but it takes a little bit longer to build that relationship, takes a lot more planning, um, having the kind of like your pricing, UPC images, you know, if you can have a live sample even better, but you're just pitching so much further out to chains versus an independent liquor store.

Speaker 1 [14:27] Elizabeth, as you're doing that pivot in, in that mix, how has that changed the, the focus for you guys there? A

Speaker 4 [14:34] lot of it is for us is, uh, recently has come down to pricing. There's a lot of different pricing models that you can have or do from a spirits perspective versus beer or hard kombucha perspective, and that varies from. DSD versus warehouse. So in both grocery, I guess, and liquor, liquor tends to more so be warehouse, but some of these bigger grocery stores have a warehouse that they're getting liquor drops and then they're pulling from that. So, and they're expecting a lower price for that warehouse drop. So. I would say for us, most of our business is grocery, um, but as we get into spirits, a lot of it has had to do with pricing and pricing models and how to adjust, you know, what's best for each of those

Speaker 1 [15:18] channels. Ryan is a smaller producer. How do you divide your focus among those

Speaker 5 [15:23] three? Yeah, that's really hard. So it's myself doing all the chain stuff from the pitches and everything, and then I have 3 team members. So if I need to go survey every King Supers, my team's not doing anything else other than that because that's all we have. Um, so we have to work a lot through our distributors, so we can go out and, you know, we'll do a survey of the market and maybe only see 30 of the accounts we're in. Um, and then we'll take that information and if I see a trend throughout those, then I can work really closely with our distributor to try to fix whether it's pricing or out of code beer or whatever the issue is, um, but I really do have to lean heavily on our distributor and work with that relationship to get things done because unfortunately we just don't have the manpower to go out and sometimes check every account very quickly, so.

Speaker 1 [16:02] Uh, I want to talk a little bit about mandates. Once you get one, you're golden, right? You don't have to do any more work.

Speaker 2 [16:08] Nailed it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 [16:09] that's, that's what I thought. Well, Becca, what, what's a good follow-up playbook for tracking and supporting mandates and working with your wholesalers to manage reset execution?

Speaker 3 [16:20] Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important to keep track of where you have mandates, right? If you're not, if you don't have a system of, of this is what all of our mandates are, and we're tracking when our wholesaler is closing those via depletion data, then you've missed the first step, right? The main point is if you've got a mandate on the shelf, you got to get it in there first. Um, And keeping them accountable, consistently communicating those, that tracking with your internal team and with your wholesalers is super important. I think that's the number one first step if you do anything.

Speaker 1 [17:00] How frequently do you have to have sales reps or territory managers visiting national accounts to ensure beer is in code, Billy?

Speaker 2 [17:08] I mean, in a perfect world, uh, like in Colorado where we have, uh, the majority of our sales team, weekly would be perfect. Um, but, you know, kind of further you get away, I think 30 days is a good benchmark. Um, and if it's a really far away 90 days, you could probably get away with it. Um, but definitely having a system in place is kind of the, the closer you are, um, I think to your, to your home market, the more you can keep an eye on it, keep your rotated merchandise fresh, um, but yeah, I mean, a perfect world, I'd be in there every week, uh, I'd say 30 days is a happy medium, and I mean, I, I could live with every 90 days.

Speaker 1 [17:44] Ryan, with that 3-person team, uh, how, how do you sort of, you know, divide their, their attention or get them focused on, you know, keeping those mandates, keeping things in code.

Speaker 5 [17:55] Like, like I said, a lot of the, the first step is tracking your mandates, knowing where they're at, so I can relay those to the team and their distributor, and then it's out on the market a little bit. It's dividing their time on a daily basis. They're seeing some of their top accounts, really good on-prem account, but also sprinkling in, you know, some of the chain accounts each day and making sure that the note they put in, um, after they visit has all valid information so I can pull a report, you know, when I need to, see what's going on, and then again, relay it back to my distributor so we can fix any issues. Um, so it's just Nothing's perfect, but I try to find as good of a balance as possible for my team to make sure that we're seeing some on a daily basis, weekly basis, but enough that we can get the data we need so we can move forward with whatever's happening at the moment. So with a,

Speaker 1 [18:36] with a product like hard kombucha, how frequently do you have to, you know, have your people out in the field checking things?

Speaker 4 [18:43] I'm trying to say it doesn't move or no,

Speaker 1 [18:45] I'm just saying, you know, it needs to be in a cooler or something.

Speaker 4 [18:50] So I'm just kidding. In the beginning, right, uh, all 2 years ago, um, we were not shelf stable, so it did need to be kept in the cooler, and that was definitely kind of a nightmare, right? We're like knocking on the dairy guy's door saying, could you move the milk so that I could get to my hard kombucha, please, and then the spilled and it was, it was gross. So that was definitely a challenge and we had signs in the back room saying please keep cold. Yada yada yada. We are now shelf stable and in the with the rest of the beer, so to speak, so it's not as much of a concern as it used to be. It used to be very much a babysitting process, but now we're just like the rest of the folks in the Beyond Beer category where we can be kept in the back and stored and, you know, ideally on display and well merched. A big thing for us is, is cans to lips, so. Anytime we get a mandate, we try to plan, you know, demos and sampling opportunities, um, signage to kind of give it one more point of purchase or one more thing to ensure that the product is getting fulfilled properly.

Speaker 1 [19:57] Want to plug that text line again. The number is 617-336-8560. If you have questions for these guys, send them, and I'll try and get you some answers. Elizabeth, I'm going to stick with you for one more question. Uh, Juneshine recently stepped away from its DTC platform. Uh, why was that the right decision for you guys and how are you filling, filling those gaps?

Speaker 4 [20:17] Yeah, that was a big learning process for us. So COVID hit. We quickly pivoted. The benefit of being a smaller company is that we can pivot pretty quickly. So we came up with this state of the art DDC platform. We were selling hard kombucha from our brewery directly to people's homes. We have a pretty large following on Instagram and TikTok these days. If you, if you go down that. Rabbit hole and um you know it was a really great way for us to get our product into consumers' hands. Fast forward people are back into the store shopping and it was just a budget suck for us. It required a whole separate line, a separate, you know, packaging, um, third parties. So we made the tough decision to walk away completely and to put our money into this RTD pivot, so to speak, um, and it was a, it was a big learning process, but we had to go through it. I would advise you look into it or call me later if you want advice before doing it, um, and really invest our money into retailers e-commerce platforms, um. In addition to third parties as we were just talking about voting here and using third parties we invest in Instacart and Drizzly, um, and advertising with those as well as the retailer specific platforms and just try to really support them versus having our own means.

Speaker 1 [21:36] I want to stick on this fourth category talk because uh we've seen this convergence with Bev Alc and an influx of new products to shelf. So, uh, I guess, you know, when we're talking about these accounts, uh, how is the competition for shelf space and cooler space changed, Billy? Great question. Solve it right now, right.

Speaker 2 [21:57] Here, here's the answers. Uh, no, it's just been incredibly difficult for Kraft, I think the past couple of years. Um, retailers are gonna want to go with something that's proven, that's growing fast. It's very exciting, uh, and Kraft has just continued to lose shelf space. Um, so there's just, you know, more breweries competing for less shelf space, um, which, you know, is, I don't know, I think it's bad, um, but yeah, it's just, uh. been incredibly competitive and you know, I don't think it's gonna stop, you know, it was seltzer, now it's gonna be RTDs. It's probably gonna be something next. So I think breweries that aren't kind of adapting and revisiting their plans and how they go to market um are gonna suffer, but I think it's the ones that are paying attention and, and, you know, Elizabeth said pivot a lot, you know, it's, it's, it's the word, um, you got to be able to pivot and adapt to the times, more focused, more streamlined, have your act together, um, just because there's, there's less space out there.

Speaker 1 [22:48] How has the game changed for non-out players, uh, like athletic, Becca?

Speaker 3 [22:54] Yeah, I mean, Billy said it great. Like there's so many options and there's still the same amount of real estate. While, you know, we're not like a new category that is trying to squeeze into the shelf. There's always been a non-AC section, albeit, you know, kind of small and the same players for a while. So it's, When you get on the shelf, I think the, one of the most important things is making sure that you're monitoring your rate of sale and your velocity. Are you hitting the hurdle rates? Are you hitting profit minimums, however that retailer looks at it? Because if you're not, you're at risk of getting pulled off. And like we know, there are thousands of breweries and other items out there that are ready to come in and take that spot. And so I think how it's changed is you're paying way more attention to your velocity, um, and making sure you're hitting the requirements basically.

Speaker 1 [23:45] Ryan, how has, has that increased competition affected dry dock?

Speaker 5 [23:50] I mean, I think both of them kind of said it. You have to look at pivoting, right? So there's not as much shelf, shelf space for craft. So what's next? So we've been innovating on the RTD side, um, here in Colorado. Ours are malt-based, so they can actually be in grocery, uh, but then that comes down to the education piece of educating the retailer and also the consumer. What it is, why you should buy it, why it's cool, why it's different, where it should go, um, all those kind of factors after that.

Speaker 1 [24:13] So, so getting into, well, I guess being malt-based, then you don't have to worry about those things that Elizabeth sort of laid out is like different buyers and you know, different laws. Yeah,

Speaker 5 [24:24] my world's a little bit easier.

Speaker 1 [24:27] It's way easier. Uh well, I mean, you still got to get on the shelf, not

Speaker 5 [24:30] easier, just easier than hers.

Speaker 1 [24:32] Yeah. So with these newer segments, uh, how, how does the, uh, I've already asked that. Let's, let's get on to on-premise pitches. Uh, how do your priorities and focuses change from off to on, uh, and I'll ask Ryan first. Ours

Speaker 5 [24:47] are fairly similar, um, with apricot being our lead brand, much like being on a shelf space, apricot always has that, has that spot. Um, and for me, I think it's a competitive advantage because I can walk into an on-prem account and I'm not competing for one of the five IPA handles or the main seller, so. There might be less of those handles available, but I should always always be in that conversation, so it gets me in the door a lot faster, I feel like from that perspective, and then I can build from that one.

Speaker 1 [25:12] Uh, how's it been for Athletic, Becca?

Speaker 3 [25:15] I mean, our, our priorities as far as brand or item priorities are very similar. While they are not as strict and like the order we would like things to be on the shelf are, um, you know, we cater what we're pitching or our on-premise team caters what we're pitching to. What's the cuisine, you know, what's the menu, what fits the best? Um, and I think the other thing that is similar is that, you know, a huge thing in off-premise is making sure you have a price tag on the shelf. Otherwise, if no one knows how much it's going to cost, they're not going to buy it. Well, it's very similar with being on The menu. So there's some similarities and like you need to be seen, uh, but as far as like our brand priorities, they're close, but we manipulate them based on who we're selling to. So

Speaker 1 [26:00] is that what you're finding, Billy? Is that what Odell is doing? You're manipulate manipulating those brand priorities.

Speaker 2 [26:06] Absolutely. Um, so like as I mentioned at the very beginning, kind of, uh, our home market strategy is always gonna be a little bit different because we have been here 30+ years, you know, so in, in the state of Colorado, 90 shilling kind of jumps to the top of our list as an on-premise draft priority, whereas in other markets might be a little bit lower and we might, we have IPA, um, and then at the ultimate day in terms of the approach of on-premise to off-premise, they're, I think they're similar in the respect that you're trying to Figure out what is the assortment, how do you add to that mix? And so, you know, for us, we'll look like, hey, do you have a fruit and sour on draft? Uh, do you have an amber on draft? Do you have a lager on draft? Um, so the priorities will change a little bit, kind of, uh, how close we are to Colorado versus how far away. Uh, and then honestly, we understand every market's different, so we, we try to have a couple of options that our distributors, um, could choose from and kind of like really fit for what, you know, would make sense for that, for that establishment.

Speaker 1 [26:55] With a portfolio that's in two very different places, uh, Elizabeth, how does that change your, your, uh, your focus for on on-premise? I'm going to get it out

Speaker 4 [27:07] eventually. Yeah, it's interesting from an RTD perspective. It's, I don't think there yet, right? I mean, maybe hopefully some of the more hotel aspects where you're really looking for a ready to go or ready to drink, but From a bar perspective, they make a lot of them make their own, right? So we're not really focused on that quite yet from a hard kombucha perspective. We're very, I would say contradicting right on the off-premise we focus a ton on our variety packs. They're definitely our top selling items, um. You know, that's what our focus is this year and next from an on-premise perspective, you can't sell a variety pack or you don't usually sell a variety pack on-premise, so we have to shift and, you know, in the off we're trying to get retailers to understand that our numbers, especially in SoCal, compete with some of the other big craft breweries and to not necessarily pigeonhole us into a hard kombucha category because we've got the numbers to prove we're a top 10 brand, um. On the on-premise, we almost play the other side of the coin where we fit that Beyond Beer category for the person who's looking for something gluten-free or that's not beer, um, you know, try to take that angle.

Speaker 1 [28:15] Getting some audience questions in here and that text line is 617-336-8560. Um, let's start with, uh, what do you guys see as the future of 19.2s in the chain environment? Will RTDs move into that market? Will NA?

Speaker 4 [28:32] I mean, I just saw a 24 ounce of tequila in the blogs the other day, so good luck with that, but I mean, it's a lot to drink. I, I don't know. I, you know, our whole company circled that whole thing and said, what do you think of this? Um, I think 192s are probably here to stay from a craft perspective, from a Beyond beer perspective. I'm really not sure. We've played a lot with 16 ounce in hard kombucha. It's always been a very safe format for us and has done well, um. You know, from a budgeting perspective and from a brewery, it's an entire, 19 2s are the same as 16 ounce, so it's the same filler. Whereas you really have to invest in a can filler for a 24 ounce. It's a totally different $100,000 part. Um, so I don't know. I think the price point alone in CSto for RTDs is just going to be really tough to compete.

Speaker 3 [29:22] Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's something that in something we've, we've talked about, it's probably on the horizon. I mean, it works well for craft beer and We craft non-alcoholic beer. So, um, I think it will definitely be a thing that non-alk moves into. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 [29:38] Ryan and Billy, with, uh, so much competition for that 19.2 ounce space, how does that change your focus on what brands you take into that package space if you go into that space?

Speaker 5 [29:51] I can go first because we can't make 192, so this is easy enough, but

Speaker 2 [29:55] if you could,

Speaker 5 [29:57] if we could, it would definitely change it. I mean, like she said, price points a big deal, so it would be certain brands, ones we thought would be beneficial. We do on the RTD side. I'm not sure if a 9.5% RTD in a 19.2 cans is responsible in any way, um, especially if someone's gonna take it and drink it right away, right immediately after they buy it, as we talked about, um. But we would definitely, I mean, it would be very similar. We'd have to look at our book, what we thought was the best fit for that and prioritize it that way, so.

Speaker 2 [30:25] Yeah, and I'd say for us, we really try to figure out or think about where is this 19-2 gonna go? Is it a C store play? Is it for concessionaire? Um, and one thing we talked about extensively at the brewery is like, can we come out with a beer that's obviously best in class quality at the competitive price point? You know, there's no point making, you know, the best uh hazy IPA in a 192 if it's gonna cost, you know, 6.99 a can and everyone else is 299. Um, so you really gotta, gotta find that balance as a brewer. of what your portfolio makes sense, where do you want to have it sold, and then honestly, can you kind of compete at the price points that you're seeing the competition at, um, because you don't want to be in no man's land. So there's a lot of things to consider, um, and I think we've been really thoughtful about it,

Speaker 1 [31:03] and I'm sure you got to take into consideration what your wholesaler and what your retailer wants and make sure they're happy with whatever decision.

Speaker 2 [31:11] No, we just do whatever we want.

Speaker 1 [31:12] Yeah, just, yeah,

Speaker 2 [31:13] you just do what you want, absolutely what they want. If it makes sense.

Speaker 1 [31:16] Uh, another question, uh, how are each of the panel is, how are each of the panelists working on really uncovering what national account buyers need and want and fitting into the buyer's way of business and not trying to get the buyer to fit in with their brand? I guess that piggybacks off of what we were just talking about there, you know, how are you really trying to dive into what your buyers want?

Speaker 2 [31:40] It's a funny thing, you can ask them. So you, you ask them, you know, what is your focus this year? What are you looking to do with your assortment? What are you looking to accomplish? You know, is it traffic? Is it basket rings? Is it, you know, leaning into a particular segment or category that's emerging? So I mean, that should be one of your first questions with your retailer if you've got 8 minutes. Hey, what are you focused on this year? Obviously, you're gonna be pigeonholed. Your products like we don't make a cider, we don't make a seltzer, you know, but I'm gonna listen for certain words and see if there's a product that I have that can fit into what they're trying to accomplish. So they're trying to increase basket ring or increase traffic to the stores, you know which one of my products is going to accomplish that the best for them. But yeah, just at the end of the day, just ask them, you know, what are you hoping to accomplish this year and how can I help?

Speaker 3 [32:26] Yeah, I mean, Ask them. I mean, it's really the best advice. I know, I, and I don't think it's the most obvious advice. I don't know that I, with nerves and when I first started doing national accounts, I don't know that I was doing that. And then over time, you realize like, wait a minute, I just need to figure out what they're trying to do. Uh, and I think it's also smart, like, it is beneficial to have syndicated data, which I know costs money. Um, it's not cheap. But it is helpful for you to be able to find some of those instances where instances where you know you can feel a need or a hole, and so, you know, maybe you ask them. What their plan is or what their goal is and maybe you don't fit right into it, but you can pinpoint and tell them something like, I just want you to know like I discovered this by looking at your data and we have a great item to fill that hole. So I think that's a big piece is if you, if you have access to it and you're able to afford it. It can be very helpful.

Speaker 5 [33:23] I think from the smaller side, if you're not getting a meeting and you can't ask them in the meeting yourself, um, you're definitely going to get feedback. Um, it may be in the form of an ad keep delete list or whatever, but when you get things back from the chain, take a minute and look through it. If you pitch things and, you know, whatever your pitch was and you got none of it added or you only got it added in certain places, that's feedback from the buyer. Um, so you can dial in your next pitch with that information and use it wisely. Not as direct as getting to ask them in a meeting, uh, but you can take things from what you get from them and try to adjust your, your presentation for the next one. If you just constantly pitch the same things over and over again in the same way, you're probably never going to get back in. So pivot, adjust, take what you learned, try something different.

Speaker 4 [34:06] Yeah, the only thing that I would add is once you get beyond, I suppose, what you're planning to pitch in terms of Doing what we think the retailer wants and support wise, whether that's demos, you know, that innovation might, might be really important to them, uh, first to market might, might be really important to them. Not a lot of bigger breweries have the ability to do that because it's, you know, they're so focused on their streamline. I think when you're smaller, you might be a little bit more nimble and you can do something like that for a regional or a, or a national retailer. So, thinking outside the box beyond just the assortment.

Speaker 1 [34:41] Nice. Uh, OK. We mentioned these data sources, you know, and you got to pay up for scanned data, but we know that there are some sources of data that you can present and, and pitch to, to buyers to maybe, you know, pique their interest. What are some that you guys can suggest for, you know, somebody that's out there on a budget?

Speaker 5 [35:01] Everyone looks at me Uh, we do have a little bit of syndicated data. We have Colorado State data, but that's it. Um, but I like to use that in conjunction with a lot of other things. We have VIP data as well, so we know where things would be in place, so I can see where we rank in the state, use VIP to show where we're at within that chain. Um, then I can also talk to my distributor, get information from them. They might not tell you what order the breweries are in or where you rank by name of brewery, but they'll give you a number and they can give you data. So, I think it's just getting creative with what you have at your disposal. Obviously, syndicated data is very expensive, so not everyone can get it. Um, but you know, get creative. Use what you can. If you have something, just make sure you understand how you're pitching it, um, so the buyer, if they, when they question you, uh, you can actually respond to the question appropriately and not look like you just threw something out and hope it's stuck to the wall.

Speaker 4 [35:48] So this may be a little unique, but it's not necessarily numbers like just straight scan data, but if you use a third party marketing program, so say you're going to do like an enter to. Win program and you can scan the QR code to whatever that person has to put in their email address and, you know, where they live. And so you're kind of getting people's data of who's buying your product that way too. It's not necessarily how many times they've bought your product, but you can take that to know where you're most popular around the country. Oh, we got a lot of people scanning in Minnesota, maybe we should launch in Minnesota. So, just a different way of thinking about data.

Speaker 2 [36:26] Yeah, and I'm, I'm super pro-free, uh, big fan of free. Um, and so one of the places that I would suggest looking at is your brewery taprooms, like, what is the best selling beer? Uh, if you launched a beer, how fast did it, you know, sell out? Uh, we have 3 tap taprooms down in Colorado and we obviously do a lot of R&D beers and it's immediate feedback on what's selling, what's moving. You, you kind of want to give the retailer or the buyer kind of like any reason to get excited about your brand. Um, Untapped, another one I like to poke around with because you can just talk about like how many unique check-ins, how many check-ins versus your other beers. This is our most, uh, checked-in beer on Untapped. Uh, there's also beer ratings, you know, so if you go to Beer Advocate or other, uh, beer, um, rating websites, just kind of give them some indication. Uh, and then I've also been a fan of pulling like specific, uh, like real-person reviews and including them in my presentation. You're obsolete cherish. Picking like the best ones, but it is cool, I think, to have someone's like actual feedback about your beer, show it to a retailer, be like people are pumped up. Um, so I think there's a, there's a ton of free things you could do, um, to make your beer interesting, exciting, but definitely, you know, if you don't have a budget for the syndicated data, stick to your taproom and just talk about how many kegs you're selling a week or, you know, what's your best popular, uh, most popular selling beer, and hopefully, it shouldn't cost you anything.

Speaker 3 [37:43] I think too, like publications like Brewbound or Your Business Daily or the, you know, Mark Brown Industry Newsletter, all those other guys not plugging for them, but you can sign up for those things and they do, you know, put tidbits of data, whether it's segment or just craft and I think that's another great resource if you can't spend the money. On syndicated data. Sorry,

Speaker 1 [38:06] sorry, I got some fuzz on my mic there. Uh, uh, so we got another audience question here. How has the e-commerce, uh, played a role in your brand growth, and I guess we'll start with you, uh,

Speaker 2 [38:18] Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 [38:20] Yeah, we're investing in it heavily. We're pitching. Putting a plan together for 2023 to really work with Instacart and, um, and Drizzly, like I said, some of the other, it's like Mick Mick Mac maybe there's, there's ones that TikTok, Mik Mac. I don't know, there's a lot of, uh, other ones out there that we are certainly investing in. Our customer is a younger customer and they're all over that. I mean, I use Instacart a lot for grocery shopping for my family. So, um, we have certainly taken a decent amount of our marketing budget and put it toward e-commerce for 2023, um, because we feel a lot of people are still on their phone shopping.

Speaker 1 [39:03] How's that factoring in for you, Becca?

Speaker 3 [39:05] Yeah, I mean, um, we have an omni-channel manager, so it is extremely important for us, uh, you know, they're monitoring what's going on on those, you know, those sites, Drizzly, Instacart, um, making sure that our imagery online looks sharp, even on retailer sites because again, like, you know, being available on the retailers's e-commerce site is super important. And then as far as our own internal e-commerce, we use that data to kind of decide sometimes what makes the most sense to move maybe into a year-round item, what are our customers online that are buying the things they can really only get there, what are they the most interested in, so it's very important to us and it's a big piece.

Speaker 1 [39:49] Billy, uh, what, what, how's that, how big of a piece is it for

Speaker 2 [39:52] Odell? I'd say for us it's a, it's an ecom like the drizzly Instacarts is small for us, and we've kind of focused more of our energy and attention on the, the retailer kind of websites. Honestly, just making sure our stuff looks consistent, uh, you know, it is obnoxious. We're like, where did you get this image from like 2005 of our IPAs? It's wildly out of date. Um, so we've spent a lot of time and, uh, unfortunately, there's no like one solution for everything cause Walmart will do something. Different than Kroger, we'll do it differently than Albertson's. So we've been really kind of learning and piecing it together just to get, you know, the description right, the image right. Adding enhanced content is another thing we're, we're investing in cause I mean, honestly, if you're shopping for groceries and you have a beer and there's no image, I, I'm probably not gonna buy that. So just even doing the basics to making sure our stuff is, is streamlined and looks consistent regardless of what uh platform or retailer you're going to is, is where we've been spending most of our attention.

Speaker 1 [40:45] Another audience question we have, how have you used brokers to help grow your businesses, or have you, and any advice with working with them?

Speaker 4 [40:56] I guess maybe from a data perspective, like we work with Three-tier Beverage who I think is speaking next. So, um, they've been really incredible partners for us for our syndicated data. Um, that's been our experience rather than, you know, I, it's, it seems like a more affordable what we need, it's tailored, you're getting a custom, you know, hands-on service, you can talk to someone directly, get some updated reports. So that's been our experience, but, um, beyond that, we don't work with brokers.

Speaker 1 [41:25] Becca, is, uh, athletic, uh, is drafting athletics future plans. That's what somebody wants to know.

Speaker 3 [41:33] Wait and see.

Speaker 1 [41:34] Wow. Maybe that's a cliffhanger for uh I think that's probably a good place for us to wrap it up. Give it up for these guys. These guys were awesome. Stay tuned. We'll be back in about 25 minutes talking portfolio strategies beyond adding another IPA with leaders from Dogfish Head, Sierra Nevada, Atraveda Beer Company, and three-tier beverages. Let's get a beer.