What It Means to Be A Craft Brewer with Firestone Walker

Speaker 1 [00:11] Past 20 months, crazy times. Now, I'm left with the big question of what's it mean to be a craft brewer these days? And I don't have a good answer for that. I'm not sure many people do, but I'm hoping our first speaker does. So, I think there's no one who's probably more qualified to speak to this than David Walker. David and Adam Firestone founded Firestone Walker in 1996 and they just celebrated their 25th anniversary. And now Firestone Walker finds itself in a transformational moment. So, I'm gonna turn the floor over to David, and then we're gonna have a conversation over here with his sales and marketing leaders, Dustin Hines and David Macon. So, without further ado, here's David Walker.

Speaker 2 [01:03] You know, one of the first things I discovered after meeting Adam was that we actually shared a passion for great beer, hard work, and building stuff. Pretty soon we were talking about brewing our own beer in our own brewery. We're the Firestone Walker Brewing Company.

Speaker 3 [01:17] Ours was the classic startup. The little brewery was hard on the eyes, but all that mattered to us was the beer. Like all good partnerships, David and I butted heads over the years. I

Speaker 2 [01:28] brought the great tradition of English ale. Hold on, no.

Speaker 3 [01:32] But the notion of pursuing the perfect beer was a guiding principle, and that's something we'd never wavered on.

Speaker 2 [01:38] When Matt Brinnelsson walked into our lives, that was actually a turning point for the beer, perfect brewmaster at the perfect time. And we've brewed some really special beers over the years and I'd like to say that we have helped define craft beer. And there's nothing more gratifying than that, than seeing someone enjoy what you've made.

Speaker 3 [02:00] In time, the beer takes on the fingerprints of the people who brew it and the place it comes from. We built a family and that's what we're most proud of.

Speaker 2 [02:11] It's hard to fathom just how far we've come. You know, we're 25 years in now, yet in so many ways, we're just getting

Speaker 3 [02:19] started.

Speaker 2 [02:36] All right, um, that's great. I, I, I love seeing that stuff. Um. So what does it, what does it mean to be a craft brewer? Well, um, means you, you, you don't have any PowerPoints for presentation like this. Um. No, I mean, I think the, um, by the way, is this too loud, is the, can you bring it down a bit maybe? Um. I think actually, probably the best thing um that I can do today, if anything, um, is, is sort of share with you guys a perspective of a craft brew owner for the last, for the last 25 years, um, especially the last 5 years, 56 years that have been insane. I mean if you think of consolidation, insane innovation, brand proliferation, total beverage alcohol, Beyond Beer, culture issues, COVID. I mean, it's, it's been a pretty, pretty disruptive last 5 years, and, and for those of you who are starting a brewery out here, it hasn't always been this way, I promise you, it's actually been, it's been a lot of fun. Um, and you know, as a, as an American craft brewer, I, you know, I truly believe that we as a community have really changed the world of beer. Um, and, uh, that's, you know, that's, that's an important thing to us. Um, but just to give you a little background, a little sort of cliff notes on who we are, um, we're a family business, two brothers-in-law, uh, my partner Adam Firestone was running a 3rd generation family winery, I was running a sort of a disruptive computer company, um, and growing grapes. Uh, we both sort of fell in pretty quickly and had an artisanal bias, idea of taking stuff from soil to glass. It sort of fascinated us, making something, putting a smile on someone's face, um, sort of added another dimension to work, um, and we were both super passionate about beer, so we set out to start a brewery, create the Firestone Walker Brewing Company in late 1995, um, with really, really humble expectations, I promise you, I mean, we, We, we literally, our business plan was to get to 10,000 barrels, we felt if we could do that, if we could try and make the perfect beer, if we could resurrect old traditions like the Burton Union and a bunch of other things, um, it would be a worthwhile project, and, um, and it it wasn't a complete wild hare, I mean, Adam had sat in the bleachers of the modern American wine movement. That in the 70s had gone from Ripple being the number one selling wine in America to literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of wine made by small wine producers, and I'd obviously been up to my neck in disruption, so we knew that if, If we, if we built a brewery, people would come, um, and it was difficult. Um, I know some of you have been on this journey with me. It was incredibly difficult in those days. I mean, you couldn't even buy equipment to brew beer with. It was either too small or too big. Raw materials were pretty well much impossible to get hold of. You were buying them from hybrid homebrewers or brokers, a broker. And then once you've made your beautiful beers, um, access to market was impossible, you know, the, the big brewers at the time, sort of had cast a spell over the wholesaler tier and they're sort of winking at them saying look, you know, keep, keep your portfolios tight. These craft brew guys look like trouble, just, you know, just, just give us a 100% share of mind. It was difficult. Um, but you know, those are all empirical problems that we solved, and that was a good thing. Um, but I think if you ask most craft brewers of that time, you know, the biggest issue we had was indifference. I mean, the fact is, um, people really, really didn't care about craft beer, um. And I actually I'd make the statement that in fact, I don't think people really cared about beer. I mean, without question they had a relationship to it, but they weren't passionate about it. Beer had sort of been diluted to refreshment, good times, gimmicks, football teams, and it was sort of homogeneous styles. And it was really, really difficult for us to get traction because all we wanted to talk about was process and tradition, and raw materials and provenance and all the good things that we have as craft brewers. But ultimately that too we pushed through it and I think the lesson to any young craft brewer here is the thing I think probably the most important thing was just strength in numbers. You know when we started there were 600 brewers that quickly moved to 1000 and another 1000 and then another 1000 and with each brewer there was an authentic voice, an opinion, a personality, noise. Uh, they were touching customers, um, they were touching communities, and slowly but surely we, we, we slowly changed everybody's mind. I mean people looked at us and said, you know, these guys actually care, they're pretty eccentric about beer, they're, they're not indifferent, um, and before you knew it, we, we created a, a really interesting community and then that community started to organize, um, we created guilds and associations, associations that were focused on, Beer discipline and quality and access to market and things that really affected brewers and as a community, it wasn't what we stood for individually as brewers, it was what we stood collectively against, you know, misery loves company, you could say. Um, And then in our case it was a little bit of be careful what you wish for. I mean we, in our 1st 10 years, we shattered our dreams, you know, we got to 50,000 barrels, extraordinary. But we're still a pretty hokey brewery, I doubt if we were making any money, um, and then, The next 5 years we grew from 50,000 to 100,000 barrels, and then the next 5 years after that we grew from 1000 to 400,000 barrels. I mean just insane, insane growth. And this, this next year we hope to get to 600,000 barrels with the leadership team here, we've we've sort of built a plan over the next decade to get to a million barrels. We've got an awesome team, we've got some OGs like me, we've got some. Some young Turks, we've got the next generation involved and things look, things look really good. And the, the message, if anything I'd give to any small craft brewer is if we can do it, you can do it. It's absolutely possible, um there's no, there's no magic, it's just hard work, um, and being authentic, and, and maybe that's the biggest lesson that you can take from this is that, You know, the kryptonite for me was indifference, and the only thing that really stopped indifference was this idea of being authentic and being opinionated. I mean, think about the consumer model of Funk Town, or think about the consumer Funky Town, sorry. Think about the consumer of the the the model of the small, small brew pub. You know, you've got the owner conceiving the beer, brewing it, likely packaging it, and if you're lucky, they're serving it to you. You know, the fidelity of that consumer relationship is unbreachable. I mean, it, it's, it's, it's perfect in its form. And as craft brewers we have to sort of aspire to get close to that now without question. Bigger brewers are going to struggle, like ourselves, but it doesn't mean we can't connect with our communities, localize the narrative, own our footprint. And in our case, you know, we have, we've got a great beer called 8:05 that we sort of extend to the Western lifestyle. I mean, I truly believe that people have a genuine emotional relationship. Without beer. And then this idea of opinions, I think that was important to us, and I think it was really important to us as brewers. We, we as craft brewers, as American craft brewers, have to really care about beer. We have to care about brewing science, brewing tradition, brewing culture, because the fact is, if we don't. I'm not sure who will, I mean, I think the brewers outside of craft, are, are in a sort of a a pitched battle, with, with total beverage alcohol, I mean, I'd I'd hate to be in that situation and, um, you know, for us to believe that they're gonna make, Brewing culture, a center pillar of their mission over the next 50 years, I think is naive. They have much bigger battles to fight. So where are we today? You know, I think we're a little beaten up as an industry, um, you know, without question breweries have thrived, we've all, um, You know we've all managed to make a lot of beer um as we've pivoted to retail, but the fact is, in reality, the on-premise is still winged, and we need the on-premise back, that's our theater, for craft brewers, we need it back, that's our theater, so we tell our unique stories, that's where we showcase our beers. You know, I read the other day in some newspaper, you know, American craft beer bars are dead. I mean, I mean, no shit. I mean, they've been closed down for 12 months. Um, they'll be back. I mean, people want authentic experiences from interesting brewers. They want to socialize, you know, it'll, it'll, it'll come back. Um, so we need to get our on-premise back online. I think we're also a little confused, and we've all talked about it. Um, I sat here for the pitch slam, it was actually really reassuring for me, um, but. You know, the fact is, a lot of the sort of beyond beer elixirs that we're looking at, in some cases, I mean they could be made by Monsanto. I mean the fact is, you know, we're not talking about provenance and process and tradition and those sort of things, and really Beyond Beer has to start making that connection with the consumer. You know, we're American craft beer brewers, we're American craft brewers, like small family winemakers, like Scottish distillers, like Mexican distillers, like French champagne makers, we need to respect our provenance, where we come from, what we mean to the consumer. So that confusion has got to be sorted out, I think, um, because we don't win that battle as craft brewers, we can't live in a homogeneous world where people are in different. To where they Beverage comes from, that's all we have to talk about, is who we are, how we made it, where it came from. Um, So what's the future like? Well, I would say I'm absolutely stoked at the future, I think, I think if you look at the craft beer model. It's the model that's been enduring for thousands of years, small regional breweries making fresh beer for their communities, that's the craft beer model, that's it, right there. And without question, the last 100 years, you know, the big brewers have created global brands and global breweries and large companies. And maybe they'll continue to prevail, but I'm happy defending my model over theirs. I mean, you know, the fact is Bud and Miller have lost 40 million barrels of production. In the last 10 years, 600 million cases, craft brewers have picked up 20 million barrels, um. You know, my sense is my model's easier to defend than theirs, you know, it's, I mean, it's not just selecting the wrong ad agency. I think there's a massive seismic consumer shift going on, and I think craft brewers are in the right spot. And then I'll, I'll leave you with this one thing, um, you know, I'm I'm a great believer in strength in numbers. And I've said this many times before, there are 12,500 wineries in America and they're constrained by climate. There's 8500 brewers in America. And in my lifetime, there's going to be many, many more, and that's a good thing, because that's more authentic stories, more personalities, more consumers, um. And if we continue to do that as breweries, as craft breweries, you know, I, I really believe we'll continue to change the world of beer, so, thank you.

Speaker 3 [14:50] The vision, the passion, the objective has always been the same, and that's our continuous search of a perfect beer.

Speaker 2 [15:00] We have helped define craft beer, and there's nothing more gratifying than that.

Speaker 4 [15:07] We'll go to our graves wishing we made a better beer. That's really at the core of the energy of our team.

Speaker 1 [16:15] Some video and I can only do one thing in that video, and that's drink beer. So. Oh, we'll go over here and have a conversation. Dustin Hines and D Mac, come on up.

Speaker 2 [16:34] Long people,

Speaker 1 [16:36] folks. Yeah, we can't all be short like me, I guess, compared to you all. So, so we're in a battle against indifference and where do you think we are at this point? You've mentioned we're beat up, so, you know, where are we at this point?

Speaker 2 [16:53] Well, I don't think we're in a battle against difference, I think indifference is always, is always there. I mean, it's like the tide coming in, and we have to figure out a way to um to differentiate ourselves as craft brewers. I mean, large brewers, it really doesn't matter. I mean they can. They can execute huge programs, um, and they can come and go and it really doesn't matter, but for, for small craft brewers, um, or for brewers of our size, we, we have to be relevant and different for consumers to recognize who the hell we are.

Speaker 1 [17:26] I completely agree with you and I, I think that we are in a moment where I don't know that a lot of people have lost their way, but they've certainly found a lot of different paths, and you guys have stayed on this singular path. You at least know your identity, so I think that provides you guys with an advantage out there, but I, I wanna dig deeper into this idea. That we've seen or not even just this idea, but what we've seen play out with these partnerships. You've got your own partnership that you made 6 years ago. So, you know, you know, when you look at that future of what these partnerships are, and I'm not asking you to comment on what Lyon's doing or all of this, but it's definitely setting something up. So what do you see that future being?

Speaker 2 [18:15] You know, I mean, I think You know, all breweries need partnerships. I mean, my partner and I are partners, um, and we needed each other to get as far as we could, um. The there's a huge amount of nuance to to adding a partner in our case, obviously, you know, we, we had to do more, you know, the majority partner in our partnership, but you know, we're 35% of their worldwide revenues, so it's a real partnership, and we look at each other in the eyes. Um and so, You know, it works for us. I mean, we've spent $100 million on building out a brewery over the last 5 years. It's, it's a lot of bendy foldies and it's something that we, we, you know, we wanted to have a partner to help us out with. So, yeah, I mean, I think, I think you're going to see more partners, I think, obviously, if you take on a partner who is going to leverage your brand, I mean, they've got infrastructure, operations, people. Then be careful. Once again, be careful what you wish for because, you know, you'll sort of lose control of what you're doing.

Speaker 1 [19:21] So the brewers Association has put its definition of what a craft brewer is. They have that definition and that is exclusionary to a lot of brands that people consider to be craft. So when we look at that, is it doing a disservice to the overall craft industry. To say, these folks don't fit this definition anymore, even though to the general consumer, a lot of those brands are craft. They were built by people like Larry Bell and Kim Jordan.

Speaker 2 [19:59] Yeah, I think you can have an opinion on this, but frankly, it's irrelevant. We're talking about less than 1% of the total amount of brewers in this country. I think what's really important is that the definition in the Brewers Association focus on the vast majority of brewers. They're the guys who need help. Frankly, we're a half a million barrel brewery. I don't need the Brewers Association help. I think if you're a 50,000 barrel brewery and you're trying to migrate to the next level, you're a 10,000 barrel brewery. That's where you need help, so I think if craft defines, you know, that, that cohort of small brewers that, that, you know, need lobbying on behalf of, then I would, you know, I would lean on that, um, but um, Yeah, I mean, I hope that helps. Yeah,

Speaker 1 [20:47] no, I, I think it helps. And so I, I guess one of the things that I brought up in a conversation with Dustin before this was, you know, we base so much of this on volume or partnership, but is there something that we should look deeper at as in like core values?

Speaker 2 [21:06] Absolutely, I mean, you've got to have core value, you can have values to exist. And um you know, if, if, if you assume a craft brewer is sort of an extension of the people and the ownership and everybody else, there needs to be common guiding principles. So, um, you know, aligning those with, um, Bigger ideas of what a craft brewer should be or um whatever it is, is, is, is something that's nice, but if it's, if it's not there, it's not there. I mean, we, we have, we have a value, we have values of our own at the brewery and um summed up in our weird slogan beer before glory and and we sort of rally behind that.

Speaker 1 [21:42] Yeah. Dustin, I'm curious to get your take on this too, because you've got an outsider's view. So I'd love to hear it.

Speaker 5 [21:51] On, uh, culture,

Speaker 1 [21:53] on culture and just in general, like, where, where do you think the consumer at? Do you think that they are concerned about these things?

Speaker 5 [22:02] Uh, absolutely. I mean, consumers buy brands, not products. So what we have to do is what I loved about Firestone and that got me into the beer business, it's been 2.5 years now. I came from the music space was the incredible story that David and Adam and the team have built. So if we can connect those stories and consumers together, which has never been easier in today's new modern marketing climate, I, I think we can absolutely create some great storytelling, and they had that with 805. They had that with Matt. And the content that we saw in those videos. So, yeah, absolutely. If you, if you want to create brands that are sustainable and around for a very, very long time, they have to have meaning.

Speaker 1 [22:36] Uh, and I'm curious to get your take too on there, there's a certain line that I think we walk where we're trying to pull more people in. We're trying to pull, pull more people in that are diverse. We're trying to pull more people who are women into craft beer. Is there a point that we're maybe being too precious about things or like that it gets to a point that it's not accessible or, uh, welcoming, I guess.

Speaker 5 [23:08] I think that's why you gotta have a really complex diverse portfolio, uh, because there's parts of our brand like our beer club that speak to the true provenance of what David was talking about earlier, and that is the best of the best of Matt Brindleton and his team. And then you have things like 805 which speak to a massive lifestyle consumer who wants something different. And then you have the IPAs and the mind hazes that speak to the craft culture and what we're doing with Cali Squeeze about trying to bring in a new consumer to Firestone Walker. So I think that's why you have to have a lot of stories and you have to build those out and manage them effectively and that's why we set our team up to manage those brands. Effectively, each brand needs a voice, and there's a steward for each one of those brands at Firestone. How do

Speaker 1 [23:45] you feel about this, DMac?

Speaker 6 [23:47] Yeah, I, I, I certainly think that's the magic of the 805, right? It is, it is ultimately very accessible and it appeals to such a, a broad audience and a large group of people that, uh, uh, in all the tiers that we deal with, uh, especially with the wholesale tier and the retailers, uh, there's just a, a wide acceptance, uh, and diverse consumer group, and I think. I think what Dustin has done in the last, you know, 24 months is really flesh that out, you know, we've had that time. COVID sort of gave us the time to really go back to the lab and really think about things, about how are we approaching our consumer groups, and, and yes, I, I truly ultimately believe that that is why I think Firestone Walker has really, uh, excelled over the last, uh, 3 or 4 years is, is the magic of 805.

Speaker 1 [24:29] Well, let's talk about 805 because you guys successfully line extended it with 805 surveysa. What have you learned through that process?

Speaker 6 [24:39] Um, you know, I think from a, from definitely a sales perspective it was a, uh, you know, we, we have a history of some good launches and some not so good launches, some stuff that we'd like to forget, but through that learning and again some of the analytics that we've brought to the table have really taught us that a testing phase was actually kind of smart. I know there are probably people in this room that might snicker that we, you know, I'm bringing up testing as a novel idea because it's not, but for us it was, and Especially with our, our, our core wholesalers both in, uh, the Central Valley and the Central Coast, we knew had such strong partner, such a strong partnership to be able to say, hey, let's, let's try this out, learn from it, innovate off of it, and continue to pivot as we get closer and closer to launch, and that was one of our biggest learnings of the. Process itself, um, and then by the time we got to the finished beer and the finished package, um, it was, it was ready to go and ultimately that was a, a great launch pad for success. I

Speaker 5 [25:35] think, I think what we learned first and foremost is hell of a brand. I mean, 805 is an absolute powerhouse of a brand and what we, the first thing that we did is we wanted to understand the customer. And so when we sat down really early on and wanted to know what 805 drinkers were looking for next, we, we found a road map of, you know, Mexican import beach beer was an, uh, a huge opportunity. More than 60% of our drinkers were consuming craft, so we started with data and information, and we use that information to make really good decisions. We give that to the brew team. So I, I think from to DMac's point, we started with understanding what our customer wanted. Let's win more share a fridge with our existing customers then. Uh, just one of the gentlemen earlier mentioned it. When you have a category as big as Mexican import, if you can just break a couple of percentage points off there, that's some really nice business for us, and it's a huge category that was primed for disruption. And then we took it all the way down the, the chain, and then at the end of it, once we launched it and had a very successful first year, we understood what was working and what wasn't, and then we pivoted and we continue to just optimize that, that message, but. The most important thing we did is we listened to the customer first and we made something that they wanted and it's done really well for us.

Speaker 1 [26:44] How hard of a sale was it to you to line extend that brand? And are you open to doing more in the future?

Speaker 2 [26:52] Well, I mean, can I, it was my idea actually. Yeah,

Speaker 6 [26:58] it came from him. Well,

Speaker 1 [26:59] even better. So let's line extend

Speaker 2 [27:00] it again. The great thing is I would have probably screwed it up. Um. I mean what I, I, I said to these guys, you know, we have beautiful momentum with the brand, can we do this? And um, you know, Uh, 5 years ago we would have just had a, had a go at it, but, you know, last 2-3 years we've we've taken a really sort of intellect, not intellectual, a sort of an academic approach to how we do these things, so, um, we did our homework and we and we felt we could do it, um, and um, So far it's worked. So will there be other line extension? Who knows? I mean, there's a You know, we have a, we have a lot of runway with the existing, with the existing portfolio.

Speaker 1 [27:41] I see you smirking.

Speaker 6 [27:43] Yes, it was his idea. I'm very upset that my astronaut device doesn't work, so I guess they gave me a microphone.

Speaker 1 [27:51] So there, there could be more in the works in the future. With that brand.

Speaker 2 [27:58] I, I have no idea. I mean, I'm, I mean, seriously, we just gave birth to this beautiful thing. We've got to, we, we got to see it to

Speaker 6 [28:05] adolescence. I think the biggest challenge is the fact that we, we launched Cerveza, um, just before the pandemic hit. Um, as everybody knows, the supply chain issues have been plaguing the industry. Uh, we pulled it off this year without cans. That was another huge thing that we had to do. We had to talk to our wholesaler partners and retailers about why no cans. And that doesn't work for every geography. So, um, in spite of its relative success, particularly in syndicated data, uh, it was not without its headwinds when it came to the perception of the brand, um, particularly in a place like Texas, where it is very much a can planet, and we really felt in our heart of hearts that Cerveza was going to be very successful in that market. To not have cans on that launch was It was kind of a was kind of a tough thing to overcome, but we're doing it and we got cans on the way and, and we're gonna, we're going to finally launch cans here in January.

Speaker 1 [28:55] How are you feeling after the last 20 months because I know you guys sort of sprung into action and you, you bulked up chain off-premise points of distro. Do you feel like you're in a stronger position now than you were pre-pandemic?

Speaker 6 [29:10] Absolutely. Um, I think that, you know, I just spoke about it, uh, a minute ago that. That certainly COVID was not easy on anybody in this room, and some of these challenges have been significant. And I was telling the story last night about that first month, you know, the whole month of March when, when things kind of got shut down in March, and then that whole month, the rest of that month, we kept meeting in Paso and finally one day, David said, I think we should stop meeting. And it was really, you know, just because we, none of us knew what was going to happen. But, but the cement and the foundation was laid at that point and we made the decision in those early days to say, You know, we're gonna make it our team's choice, but it's our desire to keep them out there. And we, we pivoted very quickly, not only from an execution perspective, but also from a, a budget and finance perspective. Um, I'm super proud of the work that our teams did in the field by staying out there. Uh, you know, gloving up and masking up and throwing cases with our partners and doing all the, the little things, uh, to help, help us, you know, stay on top of it because as you know, we're, we're a very strong on-premise brand. So losing the on-premise like that was a, was a huge financial hit. Um, so for us it was a, it was a, it was a powerful moment to say, let's go do this, let's chase it, and, uh, we got some of our team out here right now and I couldn't be more proud of how hard they worked during the pandemic. And yes. The result of that is we're, we're stronger, we're stronger analytically. We've invested in national accounts, we've been invested in analytics. Uh, we're buying more data than we've ever bought before, trying to stay ahead of where this world is going. If anybody knows, can you please, uh, send me an email, let me know where it's going because none of us really truly know. Uh, and it's still sort of, you know, in the past. But we're a little bit more, um, a lot more smart about where we're going than we ever used to be.

Speaker 1 [30:55] Well, and speaking to this last year, you made a big acquisition, your first acquisition, Cali Squeeze. It's a line of fruited hefts and seltzers. How does that fit in with the Firestone Walker ethos?

Speaker 2 [31:10] Well, acquisition is a really long word for us. Um, I mean, it's um Uh, Hamish and Rod are good friends, um, I've known Hamish too long actually, and so, um, he, he was just making better beers than we were, so that sort of irritated us a little bit, um, but it was literally, it was a little bit like the farmer, behind the farmer's field next door and, um, you know, uh, We, Hamish and I talked on and off for 2 or 3 years about Cali squeeze. I mean, I think I I think it's an absolutely lovely, um, concept. It's sort of this fruit forward beer, it's, it's, it's sort of really, um, I think brings consumers back from beyond beer into beer. It's like, don't forget beer can be just as refreshing. It had this, this sort of um. Uh, sort of of today branding, I mean, we completely missed it, so we had to, to use your word, acquire it, um, and it worked for Hamish, because Hamish was, um, uh, you know, developing his, Hamish and Rod were developing their brewery and distillery in a way that it worked for them, so, I, I, this is not something that we're going to get in the habit of, um, it, it worked really well, that particular, Um, uh, interaction. So yeah,

Speaker 1 [32:30] and we're looking forward to hearing from those guys tomorrow, um, but with this brand, what's that open up for you two?

Speaker 5 [32:39] Uh, I think it's a completely new category of drinker for us, right? With, you know, uh, it, it allows us to go after a more diverse drinker, a younger drinker, uh, a more female drinker, um, and that's where the trends we're heading from a flavor perspective, uh, and, and again, I talked about it earlier, having a portfolio that's diverse is really healthy for us because it allows us to be a lot of things to different people. There's a really, you know, broad myriad of drinkers out there, and Cali Squeeze allows us to speak. Um, to that consumer and, and in a way that was core to our DNA. I mean what it meant when David called and told us about his idea of a Cali squeeze, uh, it was a quick yes because it has all those same DNA tenants that 805 had and Cali Squeezes in the name we're a California beer company and that's, it's everything that we wanna be, so it allows us to continue to speak to our consumers in a way that's natural to us.

Speaker 6 [33:26] Yeah, I think it, it definitely fulfilled a niche in our portfolio that was missing. And we were, we were already pushing that direction and had really struggled to find the right fit from a brand perspective. And, uh, yeah, when, when, when David came into our office and said, what do you think? It was a, it was a real no-brainer and a very quick decision.

Speaker 1 [33:45] We've got about 5 minutes to go here and if, if any of you out there have questions, we've got a text line. It's 818-699-060760818-699-0760, shoot those up, um, but. I want, I want to talk about something that, uh, brewers Association chief, uh, economist Bart Watson brought up, which was, how can craft do a better job of targeting visitors from other beer and beverage alcohol categories and convince them to stay and come back. And I think that's a good question for you, Dustin.

Speaker 5 [34:21] Great products, better storytelling, and really smart marketing. Uh, I think there's a, there's a really good amount of great brands out there in craft. I mean, really a lot of exciting brands, and it's never been easier to actually connect with consumers, but it's, it's still very complex and actually how you navigate some of the tools. I mean, you know, all the, the platforms have done an amazing job of eliminating organic reach. You gotta pay for it. But, um, you know, we're lucky, really lucky enough to have one of the best brewers in the world making great products and, uh, we have a great marketing telling, telling great stories and so we just have to keep connecting consumers with interesting messages in a way that's engaging, authentic, you know, incredible, and you get them to stick. I mean you gotta create sticky brands and that's so you gotta innovate, find the things that works, understand what's connecting with your con your customer, understand what they're looking for and, and how it's resonating, and then continue to lean into that and I think that. You know, 805 is sort of a perfect example of that.

Speaker 1 [35:15] D Mac, when you look at the opportunities ahead of Firestone Walker, which channels do you think are provide the most runway for you?

Speaker 6 [35:26] Well, certainly, we, uh, Pre-COVID, we're pushing very hard into convenience, um. Um, I think I see Steve from New Belgium was here and they're, you know, uh, uh, as you know, I, I spent some time there and, uh, they're very inspirational and for what they've done in the convenience category. And that was a great example for us. And we initially thought that, uh, convenience was a 24 ounce play. In fact, we not only did 24 ounce cans of 805, but we, we did lager and Easy Jack, um, in 24 ounce can. It was an abject failure. And we learned that craft beers belong in that 19.2 ounce and we've really learned, we put the right beers in the right vessels. And we're gonna continue to work very, very hard in convenience and chain grocery as a whole, but really convenience is where I think a big bet is being placed. Uh, we want to certainly take a role in that. Uh, in fact, you know, rolling out 805 and 805 Cerveza in quarts, um, is a, is a huge play in that regard. That's not an easy thing to pull off when you have an existing bottling line to do a, a 32 ounce bottle and Um, you know, a lot of people have told us that, well, you know, courts haven't grown for years, inconvenience, at least from what, you know, uh, Nielsen is telling us, but, uh, we may, maybe 805 in Cerveza is that disruption that is needed in that part of the cooler. But it's another, it's a different, and, you know, to Dustin's point, it's another chance to sample a different consumer on another one of our beers in a different spot where people might shop. But certainly, I think convenience and, uh, David said it very well in his preamble about. The on-premise being such a, a, a vital part of, of craft beer and beer in general, as far as the experience goes, and I agree with him. I don't, uh, the beer bar is not dead. There is an authentic, there's a place for them, uh, the ones that are really run, run well for, for sampling and, and opportunity, and, uh, we, we're big believers in that and we're not gonna stop pushing on the on-premise either.

Speaker 1 [37:11] We've got an audience question here for you, David. Uh, if the taproom is our theater, how are you thinking about community building and creating slash catering to regulars in the future, whether that's loyalty, subscriptions, memberships, perks, other.

Speaker 2 [37:28] I mean, you know, we have a, I think we've got a pretty robust um retail experience. We have, you know, 33 tap rooms attached to 3 breweries. So we, we do our best to connect with the local community. Um, and, um, you know, we have, we have our beer club and Um, you know, we, we do what everybody else does to, to put smiles on the faces of our customers, but, you know, but ultimately, we're telling the story of our beers and American craft beer, so, you know, that's really our priority.

Speaker 1 [38:00] So one last question for you here unless we get some more audience questions, but The next time that we're talking, this time next year, what are we going to be talking about with Firestone Walker? What's the big story that we're going to see in 2022?

Speaker 2 [38:15] Well, hopefully it'll be a story of organic growth. Hopefully it'll be congratulations on selling and brewing 600,000 barrels of beer and Um, Hopefully these guys will still put up with me, and I mean, yeah, I mean, more of the same. I mean, it's, you know, we're a 25 year overnight success and a craft beer is a 40-year overnight success. I mean, this is sedimentary layers. This is one customer at a time. This is one decision at a time. This is two steps forward, one step back, 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. I mean, it's um. Hopefully, I don't have any big announcements a year from now. Well,

Speaker 1 [38:57] we got an audience question that's asking if you do, if as one of the leaders of the craft beer space, if you've considered an NA play.

Speaker 2 [39:06] You know, we, we talk about it. I think it's, you know, I think it's a great, um, I think it's a great thing that's happening to Kraft. I think it's great that Kraft are beginning to own NA and it's not sort of coming from another area, so we'll continue to look at it, but You know, there's, there's so much opportunity. You have to really keep the main thing, the main thing and focus on stuff that we know that we can do really well. And if ultimately that's NA, then we'll head in that direction.

Speaker 1 [39:36] Well, guys, this has been awesome. Thank you for doing this. Looking forward to having beers at your place tonight.

Speaker 2 [39:41] So you too.

Speaker 1 [39:43] Thank you.