Brewbound 2022 Rising Star: White Lion Brewing

Speaker 1 [00:05] With me today is Ray Berry, founder of White Lion Brewing, a member of the 2022 class of rising stars, and one of Massachusetts' very own Craft Brewers Ray. Thank you so much for joining. So good to see you. How are you?

Speaker 2 [00:19] I'm excited to be joining you, so thank you for having me. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 [00:23] Of course, I, we've loved following you guys' story the past couple of years, and we really think that, uh, now is absolutely the right time to make sure we included you, uh, in the class. You guys have done so much that's been fascinating. So, you know, White Lions had a really busy couple a few years, you know, you weren't content with your first brick and mortar location, which opened in Springfield, Mass in 2021. Then you announced a forthcoming second location in Amherst. Uh, all of these are, you know, west of Boston, but what has it been like to work on both of those projects at the Almost the same,

Speaker 2 [00:54] almost at the same time, right, yeah, well, the first project, uh, in Springfield, the goal was to open up in 2020, the summer of 2020, but the pandemic put a, a squash on that, so it didn't take, it took us another full year. We weren't, we were unable to open up until June of 2021, so we lost some momentum. We lost a little bit of traction, uh, but the city of Springfield, Western Massachusetts has been very supportive, and we've been able to capitalize on that. Uh, fast forward, we had a, built a relationship with some local NBA players, uh, who introduced us to Marcus Camby, uh, former UMass standout, NBA standout, and, uh, his roots are in Amherst. Um, so he felt no better than to rebrand himself, align himself with the local brewery, and it's been a reward for him and it's been a reward for us. And we're gonna be opening up, uh, the Amherst White Lion taproom, uh, at the end of the year, at the latest, the first quarter of 2023.

Speaker 1 [01:52] So exciting, and I'm glad you mentioned those relationships you have, both with, you know, your, your muni municipal partners and Marcus himself. So, I mean, I know you've always been a big proponent for partnering with local institutions, uh, particularly, you know, within the city and state. How do you think that's made the brand stronger?

Speaker 2 [02:09] From day one, we wanted to ingrain ourselves in the community conversation. That is my background. That's the team's background. We see the importance of being part of, uh, the community. So wherever we have an opportunity to volunteer, sit at the table, assist in moving the needle in the right direction for the greater good of Western Massachusetts, for the greater good of the city of Springfield, we're all in. We're all about that. So when we We didn't have a brick and mortar. We knew the importance of taking our brand to the community, to the consumer, and we partnered with a number of institutions in the city of Springfield that allowed us to do pop-up beer gardens, collaborations, etc. So, the fabric of White Lion is the city of Springfield and the fabric of Western Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 [02:50] Awesome. And tell us a little bit about Marcus Camby, for people who maybe aren't basketball fans or not from, you know, the Northeast. How is that relate, how did it form? What does it look like and how involved is he in the business?

Speaker 2 [03:02] Other than him being a very tall gentleman at 6'10, I believe, and here I am at like 5'9, 5'10. No, so locally, Springfield has another NBA star, uh, former star, uh, Travis Best, who played for Georgia Tech, first-round draft pick, uh, Indiana Pacers, went to the NBA Finals, etc. etc. So every year, Travis does a community party during a shrinement weekend. Um, and he's been doing it for about 12 to 15 years. And obviously, COVID shut that down, but when he reintroduced the party or the concept, he wanted White Lion to be part of the overall theme. And Marcus Camby came. He witnessed what we were doing, and he wanted to extend that conversation. And that's really how it started, by way of just building the bridge between 22 different uh NBA ballplayers. White

Speaker 1 [03:53] Lion self-distributes and also carries a few other mass craft brands as well. What lessons have you learned through, uh, engaging in the middle tier a little bit?

Speaker 2 [04:03] So, I'm a big believer of relationship building. Being able to have that conversation one on one. And there's nothing wrong with partnering or aligning yourselves with other wholesalers. Um, but sometimes you can get lost in some of that conversation and I wanted to be able to control much of our conversation, much of our brand. Um, and that's the reason, one of the reasons why we self-distribute in the western part of the Commonwealth. That allowed us to build a number of great relationships and great partnerships, and there are a number of smaller breweries out there, smaller brands that contract brewing that just don't have the capacity. They have good beer, they have good branding. They don't have the capacity to have an individual or two out there pounding the pavement on their behalf. So I knew the importance of alignment. I knew the importance of trying to get these good brands who have a great reputation in their own respective right out there to the great. Greater good. And that's really how the conversation started. We don't have a large portfolio. We have maybe 6, but it helps us and it helps them. And when we go out and have those key conversations, it's easier for us to go out and say, hey, there's other Massachusetts smaller brands that we also represent.

Speaker 1 [05:17] That's great. I know, you know, we've had so many, like, legends in the industry start out doing self-distro. There's so much that you can learn from it. So, uh, how long have you guys been doing that in your home market? Since the beginning?

Speaker 2 [05:29] Uh, no, no. We were once aligned with AB InBev. Uh, we were just so small, we were tiny. And um it was just, it was just hard for us. So they understood, they understood the importance of our growth and they allowed us to go out and do what we wanted to do. Uh, so we did the pivot about 2 years ago. So it's been about 2, 2.5 years of us doing the self-distribution model.

Speaker 1 [05:51] Uh, White Lion is contract brewed for a long time. What was it like to make the shift to, to bring a lot of production in-house?

Speaker 2 [05:59] The goal and objective from day one. was always to create the brand. We didn't have a lot of money. We had to bootstrap, create the brand, align ourselves with the community, and at least be able to demonstrate that the brand and the beer that we were producing by way of contract brewing was acceptable to the consumer. And then take that, those lessons and create the brick and mortar. So, you know, it didn't, it didn't happen right away for us, but I can say it allowed us to build key relationships along the way. And I think it benefited us, um, long term by way of having the brand out front first, community alignment, then brick and mortar verse coming out. Not too many people know about you, but you have the brick and mortar. So there's, there's, there's pros and cons on both aspects or both lanes of it, and I think it benefited us by having the brand out front first. Aligning ourselves with the community and then being able to come full circle and have the brick and mortar. They just create another experience on top of what folks had an opportunity to already see out there.

Speaker 1 [07:04] That's awesome. I mean, I totally see your point. There's, there's pros and cons to both, but I'm really glad you found the path that worked for you. What can we expect to see in 2023 for White Lion other than the Amherst taproom?

Speaker 2 [07:16] So the key is for us to have some sort of strategic growth. Uh, we just aligned ourselves with a distributor, craft distributor in Connecticut. That's our sister state. Uh, we're looking to, um, On board some key personnel, uh, relative to business development. That will be the next obvious step for us in 2023. And we'll look at the rest of the Commonwealth, uh, Worcester East and trying to align ourselves. The goal and objectives to continue to run our own house in Western Massachusetts and help the smaller brands. So strategic growth, strategic alignment, key partnerships is the main factor and the main trajectory for 2023.

Speaker 1 [07:54] Exciting. Any new beers that we should know about?

Speaker 2 [07:57] We always got some new beers coming. Um, you know, we have the relationship with the local hockey team, so we're looking to align ourselves with them and do another beer release with them. Um, we have obviously our Bellini Sour series is going really well. Uh, we're always putting, uh, various fruits, uh, part of the, uh, the brew, the brew process. So the series is gonna take off and continue to move us forward. Um, we, we have our IPA, uh, Driping Hop series that does really well. So, you know, it's all about being creative. It's all about collaboration and, um, monitoring and managing the consumer's wants and needs, and that's, that's the lane that we, that we follow.

Speaker 1 [08:35] Yeah, I feel like your portfolio certainly has something for everyone, but you're not all over the map. This makes a lot of sense to me. Bellini sour sounds delicious. Uh, you think that brings in a different drinker?

Speaker 2 [08:48] Oh, absolutely. You know, we wanted to create a taproom experience that brought in everyone, right? There's still the perception on how taprooms look, but we wanted to diversify that conversation. So there's a lot of first-time people that come into our taproom that may not be IPA heavy or they hear the, the, the, the story behind IPAs, you know, or if it's too bitter, they don't even want to go down that lane. So the, the, the, the Bellini, sours, the fruited beers help transition them and feel comfortable in a new space or place for them. So it absolutely helps us chop up uh the consumer base and bring in new people to the fold.

Speaker 1 [09:28] That's great. And who would you say is the White Lion drinker?

Speaker 2 [09:32] The White Lion drinker is 21 to 101. White, black, brown, multiple gender identities. That's exactly what we want to portray and have been able to portray as an experience out of the White Lion Taproom in downtown Springfield. And we'll catapult that and extend that into Amherst.

Speaker 1 [09:51] That's awesome. I, I think when you start, as you guys have, as being a brand that really is for everyone, it makes it much easier, you know, if you start with such a narrow idea of who your drinker is, it's gonna get really, it's difficult down the line to expand. So, being so welcoming from the get-go is, is one of the smartest things I think you could do. Uh, what advice do you have for fellow brewing industry entrepreneurs? You've been at this for a good little bit, and I'm sure you've learned a lot, so can you share any wisdom?

Speaker 2 [10:19] Without question, be patient. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There's a lot of experience. There's a lot of support out there. There's support in in pockets that you, you may feel that there's no support in, but if you align yourselves with the right community partners, I'm a firm believer of aligning yourself with the community. If you have that opportunity to do so. Take advantage of that community relationships, but uh if you have a local guild, reach out to the local guild. Obviously, the Brewers Association, there's a lot of resources out there. Do not be afraid to either Google, pick up the phone, email, uh, and you'll be surprised at the response that you receive.

Speaker 1 [10:59] Awesome. We can do so much more together than uh than alone, so. Um, Ray, this has been awesome. Congrats again on being in the, the rising stars class. Thrilled to have you, and, uh, this has been great.

Speaker 2 [11:14] So hope to see you soon. Yeah, we're humbled. Thank you. It's a team environment here at White Lion. So on behalf of the entire team, we thank you.